Heyneke Meyer emotional and animated during a Test match
We take a look at different views on whether the South African Springboks coach, Heyneke Meyer, should stay on as Springbok coach till the next edition of Rugby World Cup or whether he should be replaced as coach.
Rugby365’s JAN DE KONING and Sport24’s GARRIN LAMBEY are of the opinion that Heyneke Meyer should stay on as coach, whereas Sport24’s Herman Mostert believes Heyneke Meyer should be replaced.
My own opinion is that South Africa lacks quality coaches, who could take the Springboks up a notch or 2 and I do not believe the South African rugby culture, SARU’s stoid stance on rugby and the political environment is at all condusive to appointing a foreign coach, to take the Springboks further and upwards. I therefore believe that Heyneke Meyer should stay on, but I also believe there are a number of things which needs to change, to make the Springboks serious contenders for the World No 1 spot.
Let’s take a look at the different views:
Rudi Geldenhuys (Rugby-Talk.com):
It’s all fair and well to shout from the rooftops that Heyneke Meyer should go, should be axed, fired, replaced… but what are the alternatives?
Do we have to be happy with the current state of South African rugby?
Hell no!
South Africa lives with the scurge of political interference in sport and in particular in rugby. It is something we have become accustomed to. I use the term “Accustomed to” and not the term “Used to” or “Satisfied with”, because we are definately not OK or happy or satisfied with this type of interference and we will never be!
Without entering into the merits or demerits of Transformation or Racial Targets, one simple fact remains and that is that any form of racial engineering, will not strenghten South African Rugby, is anti-democratic and remains a bain on our young new South Africa. Once again I stay away from calling South Africa a democracy, as any form of racial engineering seriously takes away from every accepted democratic principle. We do not only see this in Rugby, we see this in every facet of our South African society, where any grouping seems to be afforded more equality than another.
So, now we have this situation, we’re stuck with it, it is the hand we are dealt, whereto from here?
We also know that by 2019 the Transformation Charter of SA Rugby aims at at least a 50% “Quota” or transformation representation.
The first question which arises from this is whether ANY foreign coach approached to be appointed as Springbok coach would be willing to be appointed as such, under these precepts, and if you ask me, he would have to be of less than sound mind to accept the appointment under these conditions.
Now over to the next aspect and that is the remaining South African coaching candidates as well as the general quality of coaches in South Africa, also the absence of any logical succession plan for coaches in South Africa.
No clear plan or logical succession plan exists in South Africa to bring enough new quality coaches through, that much is clear!
Hell, it is a few months away from the 2016 Super Rugby season and South Africa’s 6th Super Rugby franchise, the Southern Kings, does not even have a permanent coach appointed yet!
Which South African coach of high enough standing and of high enough quality do you know of who would be willing to coach the Springboks for the next 4 years, in this poisoned challiced environment?
Would Nick Mallett or Gert Smal be willing to take over and / or put up with SARU and the government’s whims?
Are any of other high profile coaches left over ready for the supreme coaching job, or better than Heyneke Meyer? I think not!
Johan Ackermann at the Lions is only a few years into his Super Rugby stint… and gaining momentum, but to my mind maybe still a few years away from seriously challenging for Springbok coach.
Allister Coetzee has just started in Japan after his Super Rugby stint at the Stormers and he has not even managed to secure a Super Rugby Title for the Stormers, so I would discard him straight away as well.
Gary Gold at the Sharks has never, ever won anything of serious consideration in any of his coaching positions, whether here in South Africa or overseas.
Peter de Villiers cannot even land a Super Rugby head coaching position, failing even to have landed a coaching position at Currie Cup First Division side the Boland Kavaliers. He is in any case a PR and marketing nightmare… funny as hell yes… but not of any international quality or standing.
John Mitchell? Well, his man-management skills are suspect, there was a player revolt against him at the Lions, remember?
That basically leaves recently appointed and green as hell Super Rugby coaches Franco Smith of the Toyota Cheetahs and Nollis Marais (also known as “Chuck Nollis”) of the Vodacom Bulls, as well as John Dobson of WP (who has been overseen as Stormers Super Rugby coach in favour of Eddie Jones). None of these 3 gentlemen are ready to be Springbok coach!
So, what now?
I say Heyneke Meyer should stay on as Springbok coach, but I also say there has to be some radical changes in the way that the South African Super Rugby sides approach the game! Once SA Super Rugby sides embrace a more complete type of game, then maybe Heyneke Meyer will have the player material available to also evolve the Springboks into a more complete team, with a more complete game approach… if not, then we are in for a long next 4 years!
That dear people, is MY opinion, you are welcome to agree or disagree!
If you differ from me, kindly differ with some merit to your reasons, not just because you hate or dislike Heyneke Meyer.
Jan de Koning (rugby365):
The haters will hate and pessimists will always see the dark side. Jan de Koning looks past the hyperbole at what is the right thing to do.
I am flabbergasted at the unbridled hatred directed towards South Africa’s coach Heyneke Meyer at the moment.
Even Peter de Villiers in his most dysfunctional idiosyncrasy was not disliked as much as Meyer is at the moment.
Maybe Rudolf Straeuli in the aftermath of Kamp Staaldraad experienced the kind of vitriolic bile directed at the Springbok mentor.
I was as disappointed as the next person in the Boks’ loss to the All Blacks in the semifinals.
However, unlike some cretinous ‘supporters’ I did not wish to bring harm to any of the coaching staff or players.
Wishing somebody dead because of a 2-point loss to the world’s best team is taking it a tad too far.
Seriously, that says more about the so-called ‘supporters’ than the coaching staff or players.
I want to take a step back and look at – what I feel – should be the way forward for Heyneke Meyer.
We all know there is this rumour that he has already been signed on for another 4 years.
He did not shed any real light on it either, with a sidestep that will make most midfielders proud – when asked about it at a media briefing at the weekend.
However, I believe he may well be the right man to take us forward – be that for another 2 or 4 years (preferably 4 years).
Just think about this: What would have happened if England had discarded Clive Woodward after the 1999 World Cup (quarterfinal exit for England), or New Zealand dismissed Graham Henry after the 2007 World Cup (also a quarterfinal exit)?
Meyer is as passionate about the Springboks as the next person – you can hear that when he speaks, you can see it in how he behaves on the sidelines during games, you can see it in the painful expressions in his face when his team gets beaten.
Did Heyneke Meyer make mistakes in the last 4 years? YES!
Did he learn from those mistakes? I believe he has.
Did he get some things right? Yes.
Now that the emotions of the loss have settled, let us look at where the national team stands.
In contrast to the prevailing pessimism, there were significant changes to the team in the last 4 years.
A substantial chunk of the team that played in the semifinal at the weekend made their Springbok debuts under Meyer and can go on to play in the next 2 World Cup tournaments.
Willie le Roux, Jesse Kriel, Damian De Allende, Handré Pollard, Duane Vermeulen, Lodewyk de Jager, Eben Etzebeth, Frans Malherbe, Trevor Nyakane and Jan Serfontein all made their Test debuts under Meyer.
Now add in the likes of Francois Louw, JP Pietersen, Adriaan Strauss, Willem Alberts and Patrick Lambie and you have a well-established team.
If you compare that with the quality of the players that New Zealand will lose by next year, you may see why there is reason to be optimistic.
Springbok rugby is not in such a bad state and I believe Meyer is slowly (maybe slower than some want) evolving the national team.
When he took over the Bulls in 2002 it also took them a few years to settle and evolve. By 2007 they won their 1st title and added 2 more (2009 and 2010, albeit under Frans Ludeke) with a brand of rugby that packed stadiums – making them the most supported brand in the Southern Hemisphere.
And – again contrary to what the naysayers will tell you – they also scored plenty of tries, always among the top 3 try-scorers in Super Rugby.
But back to the Springboks and Meyer’s future.
I took a look at what Meyer will be left with next year (if reports / rumours are true that he is staying on) and it is really encouraging.
Here is what New Zealand will look like: Ben Smith (available), Nehe Milner-Skudder (available), Conrad Smith (gone to France), Ma’a Nonu (to Toulon), Julian Savea (available), Daniel Carter (France), Aaron Smith (available), Kieran Read (the next captain), Richie McCaw (retired?), Jerome Kaino (getting old, but still around), Samuel Whitelock (available), Brodie Retallick (available), Owen Franks (available), Dane Coles (available), Joe Moody (available), Keven Mealamu (retiring), Ben Franks (gone to England), Charlie Faumuina (available), Victor Vito (available), Sam Cane (available), Tawera Kerr-Barlow (available), Beauden Barrett (available), Sonny Bill Williams (swapping codes again or retiring?).
Now let us look at what South Africa will look like in 2016: Willie le Roux (available), JP Pietersen (available), Jesse Kriel (available), Damian de Allende (available), Bryan Habana (available), Handré Pollard (available), Fourie du Preez (retired), Duane Vermeulen (in France, but available), Schalk Burger (going back to Japan, but retired from Test rugby), Francois Louw (available), Lodewyk de Jager (available), Eben Etzebeth (available), Frans Malherbe (available), Bismarck du Plessis (in France, but available), Tendai Mtawarira (available), Adriaan Strauss (available), Trevor Nyakane (available), Jannie du Plessis (in France, available), Victor Matfield (gone to England, retired from Test rugby), Willem Alberts (France, available), Ruan Pienaar (Ireland, available), Patrick Lambie (available), Jan Serfontein (available).
That is a very interesting picture and does not take into account the back-up (or fringe) players.
If you look at the Currie Cup competition, there is a host of very talented youngsters coming through, along with some established players that will give the national team some real depth.
That is why I say, #HeynekeMustStay!
Garrin Lambey (Sport24):
The jury is out and there certainly are pros and cons to his future at the helm of the national team.
Let’s assume for a moment that the Boks beat Argentina in their bronze medal match on Friday. Third place overall would certainly be a marked improvement on 2011’s defeat in the quarterfinals.
In his time in charge, Meyer has established a nucleus of players who are primed to perform at their peak in Japan in 4 years’ time. Players like centres Jesse Kriel, Damian de Allende and Jan Serfontein, locks Lood de Jager, Pieter-Steph du Toit and Eben Etzebeth, tighthead Frans Malherbe, fullback Willie le Roux and flyhalf Handré Pollard are all expected – baring injury – to become Bok stalwarts in the years to come.
Meyer has a 66% win ratio – which is better than his predecessor Peter de Villiers (62.5%) – and over the course of history the Springboks have only won 64% of their matches so he is “ahead of the curve”.
While Meyer’s transformation record is poor – and it’s a key point on SARU’s agenda – no replacement, local or foreign, will easily find players of colour to meet those demands as the matter needs to be addressed, and get buy-in, from provincial coaches at Currie Cup and especially Super Rugby level to start with.
Many will point to the 1-dimensional approach of the current Springbok gameplan. Perhaps the best way forward would be to have a think-tank session with all the attack coaches at provincial level and appoint someone to take charge of the attack side of matters. Maybe looking towards New Zealand for that appointment wouldn’t be a bad idea…
Meyer could still continue is his role as head coach, just with better assistants at his disposal…
Herman Mostert (Sport24):
The Springboks may boast a 66% win-ratio under Meyer as coach, but their record against old foes – New Zealand – is dismal in recent years.
Under the tutelage of Meyer, the Springboks have beaten the All Blacks just once, while losing 7.
Saturday’s semifinal against the Kiwis was a close affair on the scoreboard, but perhaps not a fair reflection of proceedings on the field of play. The All Blacks dominated all facets of play and had the game been contested in better conditions, may have sealed off the game much earlier.
The Kiwis also appeared nervous in the 1st half, with flyhalf Dan Carter uncharacteristically kicking possession away against a resolute Springbok defence.
When the heavens opened during the halftime break, with the Springboks leading 12 / 7, the script was written for an upset.
However, the fact is the Springboks didn’t have an adequate enough game plan to put the All Blacks away. They never looked like scoring a try and their lack of impetus on attack was evident to see.
New Zealand dominated territory (67%) and possession (57%) and according to statistics derived from World Rugby’s official website, dominated all facets of play.
Whether the Springboks claim 3rd place at the World Cup or not, 2015 will go down as a torrid season. They lost all their matches in The Rugby Championship, including a 1st-ever loss to Argentina, as well as the embarrassment of losing to Japan in their World Cup opener.
However, it is their lack of impetus with ball in hand which is the most worrisome. Aimless tactical kicking has also put them under pressure countless times, and as some pundits noted, it was “better for rugby” that the team who played all the rugby won at the weekend.
Perhaps the time has come for SA Rugby bosses to consider a foreign coach to change the way the Springboks play the game…
@ grootblousmile:
@ 29
In my view there should be a transparent process to find a new coach and the last thing SARU should do is to make an appointment “behind closed doors” as the rumour is at the moment.
The position should be advertised internationally indicating the performance and transformation targets so that we can see who might be interested to take up the challenge. Until this has happened we can only speculate about the availability of people such as Mallett, Jones, Coetzee, Smal, Mitchell, Venter, Plumtree who I think might all be good candidates.
I agree its going to be hard to find a suitable person but personally,for the reasons I mentioned in post #9 above, I would rather take a chance with a foreigner ( who can mentor a local successor) or alternatively appoint a local who paid his dues (Coetzee for example).
The fact that Coetzee has not won a super rugby tournament does not necessary mean he is not a good candidate to take a Bok team forward taking into consideration his experience of the specific unique conditions under which such a person must operate and his success to develop young players during his time in Cape Town.
Meyer is at the moment very unpopular in SA and it really seems as if he has during his 4 years in charge failed to win the hearts and trust of the majority of supporters and I just do not think he has the personal characteristics and vision to turn this situation over.
I categorically feel that Meyer should not continue as coach of SA. After 3 losses in the RC, he stuck his head in the sand and reverted back to his old game plan. The biggest problem in the semi final was that execution of the game plan was terrible, and his players were unable to change what they were coached to do. We have a very big chance of being beaten by Argentina twice in one year. That is unacceptable. We have become so used to having a 60% win ratio, that a coach who achieves a mid 60% ratio is considered good. Whoever is appointed should have performance clauses in his contract, and anything less than 80% must be deemed unacceptable.
Who to put in his place? That is a very difficult choice, as there are very few local candidates that stand out. Johan Ackermann could be an inspired choice, but in spite of his good performances at the Lions, he needs to achieve more in SR. John Mitchell is another coach who could be appointed, and he has been in SA long enough to know the psyche of the players, and is very well aware of the added pressures the SA coach would face. Mallet has not coached for a while, and Brenden Venter would be too controversial for SARU. AC would bring nothing new to the SA game plan as he favours Jake the Snakes conservatism. As for JW, definitely not.
In terms of transformation, we have sufficient POC’s that can make the side on merit, without being classified as “quota” players. On another blog I listed about 11 players that would not let the side down if selected. Its such a pity that a player like Kolbe would never be selected for SA because of his size. Senatla is another player who could set the international scene alight. Add Mapoe, Paige and so forth and we have some really talented players. Who do you guys think could play for SA without being considered “quota”?
31 @ robzim:
Unfortunately we have come to know that SARU does not ever follow a transparent process.
I agree fully, it is of national rugby importance that the process be transparent… but to you and me and the other supporters it is a mere wish… unfortunately!
The problem I have right now and might I add that is my only reason to want Heyneke Meyer to continue for now, is the lack of logical and clear successors standing out or having been brought through prudently.
Add to that the general South African rugby underperformance… from Super Rugby right through to the Test arena and I can only conclude that rugby as a whole in SA needs an urgent overhaul.
I think the 2016 Super Rugby season should show us exactly where we stand, and IF things have changed or are in the process of changing. We will see ALL the new Super Rugby coaching structures in place and the use of the players who are gravitating from Varsity Cup and Currie Cup.
Here I’m talking about the youngsters like Warrick Gelant, Travis Ismaiel, Cheslin Kolbe, Seabelo Senatla, Notshe, Carr, Robert du Preez, the Du Preez twins at the Sharks, Jaco Kriel, Malcolm Marx, the Lions props, Rudy Paige… and a few others in addition to the young lot currently at the Bokke.
I can’t wait to see how the Emirates Lions go in Super Rugby in 2016, what Eddie Jones does with the DHL Stormers, how Nollis Marais advances the Vodacom Bulls, if Franco Smith can re-vitalize the Toyota Cheetahs, what Robert du Preez snr’s influence is at the Cell C Sharks… and whether the Southern Kings can unearth a few bright diamonds.
I think you would agreee with me when I say that ANY Springbok coach is and will always be LIMITED / CURBED / INHIBITED by the quality of the player material (and the new skills they bring through from their Super Rugby franchises) he inherits from Super Rugby.
Is it co-incidence that the Springboks are struggling at the moment, after 2 years of a bitter struggle for SA teams in Super Rugby… or is THAT a very large contributing factor?
I am of the opinion that we can only heal the Springboks properly by looking at SA Rugby wholistically and not in international Test isolation alone.
I have already advanced my reasons why I do not think a foreign coach could succeed, so I won’t repeat that, but I really do not see any of them achieving success in our unique environment…. and that leaves us a bit bare on replacement coaches, if you ask me.
You people have no respect at all.
Heineken and the Boks did you all a great favour when they lost in the Semi’s.
A GREAT FAVOUR.
Your stress, your anxiety, your unease, were all alleviated with that loss…………………………………………now you are free of this tension about whether you are good enough to win.
Free at last………………………………..well for 4 more years anyway.
But free for now.
No more high blood pressure, free from the need to find a release of this stress……………………………………… in the form over indulgence in alcohol, tik, or whatever. free at last.
Spare a thought for us ANZAC’s………………………………………..one of us are going to be forever Known as the Loser of The 2015 RWC.
You Mothers don’t known how lucky you are.
@ cane:
Tell ’em mate, they don’t have a fecking clue how lucky they are!
Rudi makes good sense.
At the end of the day, we all learn from our experiences and mistakes. (well I never did but that’s life).
A Foreign Coach is just not on. Is it.
And who among the current crop of Super Rugby Coaches is ready or able to do better?
Give Heineken another 2 yrs with another 2 on top of that, if he gets a better than 70% winning ratio.
Now the SARU could not be fairer than that …………………..could they.
36 @ cane:
Farkit,
I should frame this comment of yours, complimenting me and saying I make good sense!!
@ BrumbiesBoy:
Should be a cracker Bumbie.
Oz can win if, Pocock and Hooper get there own way at the breakdown. They were magnificent against Argentina.
NZ can win if we attack, attack, attack, attack, attack. But if we go into a defensive mind-set this will suit OZ.
The OZ backs also know how to score tries…………………………………………………..NZ just need to score more.
Scrums should be even,
lineouts advantage NZ,
breakdown advantage OZ.
attitude, even.
Stress levels for the supporters………………………………….sky high.
🙄
Why is a foreign coach not a good idea? I think its the best idea. New ideas not tainted by the experience of working with players over the years, no provincial bias etc.
@ grootblousmile:
Groot,
I do not intent to make a habit of it.
😉
@ RobbedbyCraigJoubert:
Why is it not a good idea?
Because for one………………………………the knunt would be a Foreigner.
Two…………………………..grow your own Coaches. From the grass roots up.
Three…………………………..OZ and NZ have the same progression for Coaches as SA. i.e. Curry Cup/NPC to Super Rugby. They all have the same opportunities.
Four…………………SA is one of the Greatest Rugby Nations EVER.
Five……………………Rugby is rugby……………………………it’s not Rocket Science. Is it.
Six………………….Do you really what Dingo Deans, Sir Clive or Judas Jones running your show?
Seven……………..How complicated can it be…………………………………pass the ball to JPP or Brian. Fark they score plenty of tries from intercepts, just imagine how many they might score if they were actually part of the game plan.
Eight…………………..What high profile International Coach would subject himself to the Political System and Provincialism he would encounter in SA?
41 @ cane:
Cane makes good sense.
Hahaha
A Foreign Coach is just not on!
And who among the current crop of Super Rugby Coaches is ready or able to do better?
Give Heyneke another 2 years with another 2 on top of that, if he gets a better than 70% winning ratio.
Now the SARU could not be fairer than that … could they.
Compliment returned, Mainstay Cane!
Where in the world has a foreign rugby coach EVER taken a nation to No 1 in the world?
Look at the current crop at Ireland, Wales, Scotland… not even reaching the Semifinals at Rugby World Cup.
Look at Steve Hansen’s own stint with Wales… they went nowhere!
Look at Nick Mallett at Italy… they did not improve either!
… and you can go through all the other foreign coaches and the same story will appear…
But South Africa has an added element or impediment, which would make it even more difficult for a foreigner… the political rugby landscape in SA!
38 @ cane:
Agree, good post bru!
@ grootblousmile:
@ 43
Kitch Christie (serious Scottish background) and Nick Mallett ( English born) were/are very close to being foreigners 🙂
But you are right..no national team with a foreign coach has ever won a world cup in rugby or even in football.
In cricket its a bit different as Gary Kirsten won a world cup coaching India while Duncan Fletcher and Andy Flowers ( both Zimbabweans) achieved great success coaching England.
grootblousmile wrote:
Hi Gbs, no man why are you comparing apples with prickly pairs. For one there is a vast difference in resources think SA have almost 10X as many registered players than Scotland. Seem to recall Wales got to last World Cup semifinal and lost by 1 point playing with 14 for most of the game, coached by…. Mr Gatland who also coached the Lions to victory last time. Think Italy improved under Mallet, pulling off that win against France in his time, it just doesn’t seem to have been sustained since he left.
And then won’t mention that Scotland could have/no should have been at semifinal this year under a coach from New Zealand who has been in charge for just over a year. Think of who have won 6 Nations for at least last 3 years. So ‘foreign’ coaches can be good, especially if they are from NZ
The incomparable David Pocock is key to Australia’s success on Saturday… if he can drag his semi broken body through another epic performance the Aussies might just pull of a big surprise.
46 @ Bullscot:
No Bully… you guys are trying to force a square peg into a round hole…
Even IF anybody could show me a foreign rugby coach who took the team he coached to No 1 in the world (that’s my criteria for a Springbok coach to be able to do), then I would gladly clap hands!
But remember, South Africa is markedly different, specifically due to our transformation goals / targets… call it what you want.
Now take it like this: We, as people inside South Africa have difficulty to come to terms with transformation… the whole idea of it and the means to do so. A foreign coach would just want to choose the best Springbok side, so I can imagine not having lived in and through our recent history how impossible a task that would be and what an offputting factor it would be in taking the position in the first place.
Would you go into a new postion, where results are expected from you but your hands are tied behind your back and you are not allowed to choose the best personnel to reach those results?
I would’nt, definately not!
I would not even fit into a bloody South African Corporate environment, where these “Targets” have to make up a specified percentage of your management staff!
Victoriabok wrote:
Whaaaat? No place for a Spaniard? 🙂
@ robzim:
They showed a interview with David Pocock on NZ TV tonight.
Fark………………………….those Argentines must have given him some grief.
Looked like he had done 15 rounds with Mike Tyson.
cane wrote:
They breed them tough in Zimbabwe & Zambia:
“… Rugby is not a religion in Zambia, but that does not mean we have not contributed to world rugby in the past… Almost completely unknown is the story of Andy MacDonald.
Andy MacDonald was born in Mufulira. Andy also played for the Springboks in the 1965 tour to Australia.
During the 50’s and early 60’s, rugby players in Zambia and Zimbabwe were eligible for selection to Springbok teams… Andy, at the time, was farming at Zimba (north of Livingstone) and had been chosen to play prop for the Springboks in 1965… Sometime in the years after the tour, (no one can remember quite when) Andy became embroiled in an argument with a lion (wild animal, not English rugby player). We asked a few of the old timers for the exact story.
Lions were causing problems on his farm; killing livestock. Andy set out, together with his foreman, to solve this problem. The finer details could not be recalled, but the end result was that Andy shot a lioness, with his 303 rifle. But he did not kill her and he and his foreman started tracking the wounded lioness through the bush. Coming around a large anthill, the lioness pounced on Andy who did manage to lift the gun to partially defend himself, but which also resulted in the rifle being bent and rendered useless as a weapon. This left Andy wrestling with the lioness. His foreman, in the meantime and despite being armed, ran off to get help
Andy was a strong, powerful man and was obviously very fit. He eventually managed to get his hand in the lion’s mouth and get hold of the lion’s tongue. The lioness finally released its grip on Andy and crawled a few metres away before dying from the gunshot wound. But by this time the damage had been done, leaving Andy with part of his thumb and first finger missing as well as some badly mangled fingers. There were also extensive lacerations on his legs and arms, leaving him needing 480 stitches when he got medical attention.
Free of the lion, Andy set off to get help for himself and walked a good number of kilometres before he was picked up by one of his family and the foreman although they at first thought that he was a farm worker or villager who had had a bit too much to drink; caked with mud and congealed blood from the severely mauled arm, he was unrecognisable.
Andy eventually left Zambia in the early 70’s and moved down to Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe). He and his wife were killed in the ambush just outside Bulawayo in the mid 1980’s when their car was set alight. The killers were never found. The blame was put on dissidents or the South Africans although there was speculation that Andy’s involvement in breeding dogs for the police may have played a part in his untimely death.”
https://www.facebook.com/Lowdown.Zambia/posts/10151090271273072
There is no apparent solution to the Bok coaching conundrum:
1. HM has nothing more to offer – it’ll be just more of the same old, same old [yesterday man selecting yesterday men to play yesterday’s (failed) game plan] …
2. A foreign head coach is demeaning & will also be a probable failure given SA’s complexities.
3. The current crop of local coaches just do not inspire any confidence.
PS: SA’s so called traditional strengths are not so traditional …
Meyer has to go… Over the last 12 months losses to Ireland, Wales, Argentina, Australia, Japan and Nz 2x is unacceptable considering the support he was given by by Saru as opposed to his predecessor. He failed to deliver and sorry to say I,t is head on the block time.
There are also three other reasons why I think Meyer should not get an extension to his contract.
The first being was his reliance on overseas based players. How can you start implementing a more sophisticated game plan when your players are spread over different continents.
Number two… the game plan…limited and in need of modernizing.
Finally, why is there no succession plan. Meyer’s assistants are seen as yes men and even after 4 years in the job, not one is seen as being capable of stepping up to the top job…. even to coach the Kings.
I stick with my previous post and I give my reasons
No provincialism.
A clean slate with regard to legacy players past their sell by date
So if we have plenty of great coaches where are they? Can you give some examples of coaches capable of taking SA to No 1?
BTW how many times have we actually been at No1 under an SA coach and for how long??
I think it has happened once. Hardly a regular event.
Quotas are part of our sport but we have the players to put in without sacrificing quality, we saw that this WC.
Lets face it guys, Meyer will never accomplish this, Never. Ever.
But you guys already know this.
So then which SA Coch an do it?
Ackerman??
Maybe but he needs to prove himself at Super Rugby level first.
Interesting to note that Steve Hansen never had to prove himself at SR. He was assistant coach to the Crusaders, then became head coach of Wales and returned to NZ to fill the role of assistant coach to Henry.
So it shouldn’t be such a big criteria to excel as SR coach to make the grade as Bok coach.
We have just had 4 dismal years of Bok rugby under, who some (especially those wearing light blue supporter jerseys) would consider the most successful SR coach SA has had.
Should Ludeke get the Bok job because he has two SR wins?
Also interesting to note that Hansen has been appointed until 2017, the same idea I had for SA rugby. A coach doesn’t have to be appointed for the 4 years starting after 1 WC to the end of the next, he can be appointed for 4 years starting two years before the WC up to two years after the next WC.
I find it strange that a country who was so quick to fire a WC winning coach will now be willing to reappoint a flop at International level who has managed to win nothing of note.
Is it because he is Afrikaans, or because he gave the Bulls bragging rights in 2007, or because he belts out the anthem, or because he comes across as such a nice fellow?
I am not sure what the reason is, but in terms of coaching an International side in tests there should be no reason to keep him on, the last 4 years should surely have shown he is not up to it
54 @ RobbedbyCraigJoubert:
Leave Oom Ackers alone!
Truth is SA Rugby is farked either way.
HM has achieved little in the last 4 years and seems incapable of turning things around.
The current SA Super Rugby coaches have collectively won fokol.
No foreign coach with more that 3 brain cells would consider taking on all of th BS associated with SARU.
So where does that leave us?
57 @ Scrumdown:
It leaves us having to fix all our Super Rugby 1st and foremost… that’s where it leaves us.
And I agree with you, no foreign coach with more that 3 brain cells would consider taking on all of the Bullshit associated with SARU and the politicos!
The inability to change a gameplan mid game is nothing new to SA Rugby.
That is essentially why we lost to Aus in 2011.
So is the problem FAR more deep rooted than just the coach?
Ask McLook. I am sure he could give us some insights and opinions.
@ Scrumdown:
2 words:
Carlos Queiros
Users Online
Total 129 users including 0 member, 129 guests, 0 bot online
Most users ever online were 3735, on 31 August 2022 @ 6:23 pm
No Counter as from 31 October 2009: 39,452,203 Page Impressions
_