Heyneke Meyer emotional and animated during a Test match
We take a look at different views on whether the South African Springboks coach, Heyneke Meyer, should stay on as Springbok coach till the next edition of Rugby World Cup or whether he should be replaced as coach.
Rugby365’s JAN DE KONING and Sport24’s GARRIN LAMBEY are of the opinion that Heyneke Meyer should stay on as coach, whereas Sport24’s Herman Mostert believes Heyneke Meyer should be replaced.
My own opinion is that South Africa lacks quality coaches, who could take the Springboks up a notch or 2 and I do not believe the South African rugby culture, SARU’s stoid stance on rugby and the political environment is at all condusive to appointing a foreign coach, to take the Springboks further and upwards. I therefore believe that Heyneke Meyer should stay on, but I also believe there are a number of things which needs to change, to make the Springboks serious contenders for the World No 1 spot.
Let’s take a look at the different views:
Rudi Geldenhuys (Rugby-Talk.com):
It’s all fair and well to shout from the rooftops that Heyneke Meyer should go, should be axed, fired, replaced… but what are the alternatives?
Do we have to be happy with the current state of South African rugby?
Hell no!
South Africa lives with the scurge of political interference in sport and in particular in rugby. It is something we have become accustomed to. I use the term “Accustomed to” and not the term “Used to” or “Satisfied with”, because we are definately not OK or happy or satisfied with this type of interference and we will never be!
Without entering into the merits or demerits of Transformation or Racial Targets, one simple fact remains and that is that any form of racial engineering, will not strenghten South African Rugby, is anti-democratic and remains a bain on our young new South Africa. Once again I stay away from calling South Africa a democracy, as any form of racial engineering seriously takes away from every accepted democratic principle. We do not only see this in Rugby, we see this in every facet of our South African society, where any grouping seems to be afforded more equality than another.
So, now we have this situation, we’re stuck with it, it is the hand we are dealt, whereto from here?
We also know that by 2019 the Transformation Charter of SA Rugby aims at at least a 50% “Quota” or transformation representation.
The first question which arises from this is whether ANY foreign coach approached to be appointed as Springbok coach would be willing to be appointed as such, under these precepts, and if you ask me, he would have to be of less than sound mind to accept the appointment under these conditions.
Now over to the next aspect and that is the remaining South African coaching candidates as well as the general quality of coaches in South Africa, also the absence of any logical succession plan for coaches in South Africa.
No clear plan or logical succession plan exists in South Africa to bring enough new quality coaches through, that much is clear!
Hell, it is a few months away from the 2016 Super Rugby season and South Africa’s 6th Super Rugby franchise, the Southern Kings, does not even have a permanent coach appointed yet!
Which South African coach of high enough standing and of high enough quality do you know of who would be willing to coach the Springboks for the next 4 years, in this poisoned challiced environment?
Would Nick Mallett or Gert Smal be willing to take over and / or put up with SARU and the government’s whims?
Are any of other high profile coaches left over ready for the supreme coaching job, or better than Heyneke Meyer? I think not!
Johan Ackermann at the Lions is only a few years into his Super Rugby stint… and gaining momentum, but to my mind maybe still a few years away from seriously challenging for Springbok coach.
Allister Coetzee has just started in Japan after his Super Rugby stint at the Stormers and he has not even managed to secure a Super Rugby Title for the Stormers, so I would discard him straight away as well.
Gary Gold at the Sharks has never, ever won anything of serious consideration in any of his coaching positions, whether here in South Africa or overseas.
Peter de Villiers cannot even land a Super Rugby head coaching position, failing even to have landed a coaching position at Currie Cup First Division side the Boland Kavaliers. He is in any case a PR and marketing nightmare… funny as hell yes… but not of any international quality or standing.
John Mitchell? Well, his man-management skills are suspect, there was a player revolt against him at the Lions, remember?
That basically leaves recently appointed and green as hell Super Rugby coaches Franco Smith of the Toyota Cheetahs and Nollis Marais (also known as “Chuck Nollis”) of the Vodacom Bulls, as well as John Dobson of WP (who has been overseen as Stormers Super Rugby coach in favour of Eddie Jones). None of these 3 gentlemen are ready to be Springbok coach!
So, what now?
I say Heyneke Meyer should stay on as Springbok coach, but I also say there has to be some radical changes in the way that the South African Super Rugby sides approach the game! Once SA Super Rugby sides embrace a more complete type of game, then maybe Heyneke Meyer will have the player material available to also evolve the Springboks into a more complete team, with a more complete game approach… if not, then we are in for a long next 4 years!
That dear people, is MY opinion, you are welcome to agree or disagree!
If you differ from me, kindly differ with some merit to your reasons, not just because you hate or dislike Heyneke Meyer.
Jan de Koning (rugby365):
The haters will hate and pessimists will always see the dark side. Jan de Koning looks past the hyperbole at what is the right thing to do.
I am flabbergasted at the unbridled hatred directed towards South Africa’s coach Heyneke Meyer at the moment.
Even Peter de Villiers in his most dysfunctional idiosyncrasy was not disliked as much as Meyer is at the moment.
Maybe Rudolf Straeuli in the aftermath of Kamp Staaldraad experienced the kind of vitriolic bile directed at the Springbok mentor.
I was as disappointed as the next person in the Boks’ loss to the All Blacks in the semifinals.
However, unlike some cretinous ‘supporters’ I did not wish to bring harm to any of the coaching staff or players.
Wishing somebody dead because of a 2-point loss to the world’s best team is taking it a tad too far.
Seriously, that says more about the so-called ‘supporters’ than the coaching staff or players.
I want to take a step back and look at – what I feel – should be the way forward for Heyneke Meyer.
We all know there is this rumour that he has already been signed on for another 4 years.
He did not shed any real light on it either, with a sidestep that will make most midfielders proud – when asked about it at a media briefing at the weekend.
However, I believe he may well be the right man to take us forward – be that for another 2 or 4 years (preferably 4 years).
Just think about this: What would have happened if England had discarded Clive Woodward after the 1999 World Cup (quarterfinal exit for England), or New Zealand dismissed Graham Henry after the 2007 World Cup (also a quarterfinal exit)?
Meyer is as passionate about the Springboks as the next person – you can hear that when he speaks, you can see it in how he behaves on the sidelines during games, you can see it in the painful expressions in his face when his team gets beaten.
Did Heyneke Meyer make mistakes in the last 4 years? YES!
Did he learn from those mistakes? I believe he has.
Did he get some things right? Yes.
Now that the emotions of the loss have settled, let us look at where the national team stands.
In contrast to the prevailing pessimism, there were significant changes to the team in the last 4 years.
A substantial chunk of the team that played in the semifinal at the weekend made their Springbok debuts under Meyer and can go on to play in the next 2 World Cup tournaments.
Willie le Roux, Jesse Kriel, Damian De Allende, Handré Pollard, Duane Vermeulen, Lodewyk de Jager, Eben Etzebeth, Frans Malherbe, Trevor Nyakane and Jan Serfontein all made their Test debuts under Meyer.
Now add in the likes of Francois Louw, JP Pietersen, Adriaan Strauss, Willem Alberts and Patrick Lambie and you have a well-established team.
If you compare that with the quality of the players that New Zealand will lose by next year, you may see why there is reason to be optimistic.
Springbok rugby is not in such a bad state and I believe Meyer is slowly (maybe slower than some want) evolving the national team.
When he took over the Bulls in 2002 it also took them a few years to settle and evolve. By 2007 they won their 1st title and added 2 more (2009 and 2010, albeit under Frans Ludeke) with a brand of rugby that packed stadiums – making them the most supported brand in the Southern Hemisphere.
And – again contrary to what the naysayers will tell you – they also scored plenty of tries, always among the top 3 try-scorers in Super Rugby.
But back to the Springboks and Meyer’s future.
I took a look at what Meyer will be left with next year (if reports / rumours are true that he is staying on) and it is really encouraging.
Here is what New Zealand will look like: Ben Smith (available), Nehe Milner-Skudder (available), Conrad Smith (gone to France), Ma’a Nonu (to Toulon), Julian Savea (available), Daniel Carter (France), Aaron Smith (available), Kieran Read (the next captain), Richie McCaw (retired?), Jerome Kaino (getting old, but still around), Samuel Whitelock (available), Brodie Retallick (available), Owen Franks (available), Dane Coles (available), Joe Moody (available), Keven Mealamu (retiring), Ben Franks (gone to England), Charlie Faumuina (available), Victor Vito (available), Sam Cane (available), Tawera Kerr-Barlow (available), Beauden Barrett (available), Sonny Bill Williams (swapping codes again or retiring?).
Now let us look at what South Africa will look like in 2016: Willie le Roux (available), JP Pietersen (available), Jesse Kriel (available), Damian de Allende (available), Bryan Habana (available), Handré Pollard (available), Fourie du Preez (retired), Duane Vermeulen (in France, but available), Schalk Burger (going back to Japan, but retired from Test rugby), Francois Louw (available), Lodewyk de Jager (available), Eben Etzebeth (available), Frans Malherbe (available), Bismarck du Plessis (in France, but available), Tendai Mtawarira (available), Adriaan Strauss (available), Trevor Nyakane (available), Jannie du Plessis (in France, available), Victor Matfield (gone to England, retired from Test rugby), Willem Alberts (France, available), Ruan Pienaar (Ireland, available), Patrick Lambie (available), Jan Serfontein (available).
That is a very interesting picture and does not take into account the back-up (or fringe) players.
If you look at the Currie Cup competition, there is a host of very talented youngsters coming through, along with some established players that will give the national team some real depth.
That is why I say, #HeynekeMustStay!
Garrin Lambey (Sport24):
The jury is out and there certainly are pros and cons to his future at the helm of the national team.
Let’s assume for a moment that the Boks beat Argentina in their bronze medal match on Friday. Third place overall would certainly be a marked improvement on 2011’s defeat in the quarterfinals.
In his time in charge, Meyer has established a nucleus of players who are primed to perform at their peak in Japan in 4 years’ time. Players like centres Jesse Kriel, Damian de Allende and Jan Serfontein, locks Lood de Jager, Pieter-Steph du Toit and Eben Etzebeth, tighthead Frans Malherbe, fullback Willie le Roux and flyhalf Handré Pollard are all expected – baring injury – to become Bok stalwarts in the years to come.
Meyer has a 66% win ratio – which is better than his predecessor Peter de Villiers (62.5%) – and over the course of history the Springboks have only won 64% of their matches so he is “ahead of the curve”.
While Meyer’s transformation record is poor – and it’s a key point on SARU’s agenda – no replacement, local or foreign, will easily find players of colour to meet those demands as the matter needs to be addressed, and get buy-in, from provincial coaches at Currie Cup and especially Super Rugby level to start with.
Many will point to the 1-dimensional approach of the current Springbok gameplan. Perhaps the best way forward would be to have a think-tank session with all the attack coaches at provincial level and appoint someone to take charge of the attack side of matters. Maybe looking towards New Zealand for that appointment wouldn’t be a bad idea…
Meyer could still continue is his role as head coach, just with better assistants at his disposal…
Herman Mostert (Sport24):
The Springboks may boast a 66% win-ratio under Meyer as coach, but their record against old foes – New Zealand – is dismal in recent years.
Under the tutelage of Meyer, the Springboks have beaten the All Blacks just once, while losing 7.
Saturday’s semifinal against the Kiwis was a close affair on the scoreboard, but perhaps not a fair reflection of proceedings on the field of play. The All Blacks dominated all facets of play and had the game been contested in better conditions, may have sealed off the game much earlier.
The Kiwis also appeared nervous in the 1st half, with flyhalf Dan Carter uncharacteristically kicking possession away against a resolute Springbok defence.
When the heavens opened during the halftime break, with the Springboks leading 12 / 7, the script was written for an upset.
However, the fact is the Springboks didn’t have an adequate enough game plan to put the All Blacks away. They never looked like scoring a try and their lack of impetus on attack was evident to see.
New Zealand dominated territory (67%) and possession (57%) and according to statistics derived from World Rugby’s official website, dominated all facets of play.
Whether the Springboks claim 3rd place at the World Cup or not, 2015 will go down as a torrid season. They lost all their matches in The Rugby Championship, including a 1st-ever loss to Argentina, as well as the embarrassment of losing to Japan in their World Cup opener.
However, it is their lack of impetus with ball in hand which is the most worrisome. Aimless tactical kicking has also put them under pressure countless times, and as some pundits noted, it was “better for rugby” that the team who played all the rugby won at the weekend.
Perhaps the time has come for SA Rugby bosses to consider a foreign coach to change the way the Springboks play the game…
Boks have excellent players to win the World Cup but South African rugby needs to change.
There are really skilled players in the book ranks who can play the Aussie and kiwi way but are restrained.
I don’t believe the head coach of any national side be a foreigner….they cannot take the players passion to a patriotic level.
If you need foreign coaching injection make them assistant coaches….never head coach!
Stop with the fixation that the coach MUST be appointed for the four year period between world cups. His whole focus is then only really on one tournament at the end of his tenure.
I would suggest HM remains till 2017, that gives SARU 2 years to identify and appoint a coach from 2018-2021, also a two year cycle after the 2019 WC.
Cheika proved that if you are a good enough coach you can take a side to the WC final even though you have only had 1 year as head coach.
By appointing a coach for a period after the WC means that he should not feel obligated to only be judged on the WC at the end of his tenure.
2 @ nortie:
Is it a fixation or does logic determine that?
Would you be willing to be appointed in a nice new lucrative job with only a 2-year contract, and unsure what the future would hold after those 2 years have expired? How lucrative would that new job have to be to negate only a short appointment?
Or, would you want some job security for a number of years, so that you have a relatively secure working future?
Which other coach, international of local would take a short term appointment, easily? How many of them would turn down the opportunity if the term was a short one?
I agree with you that a year or 2 is enough… or should be enough to build a quality side… but is THAT the only consideration?
Think longer than your own nose, Nortels!
Ek weet nie of heyneke ooit sy skop en hoop mentalityd sal verander nie, ek dink n ou soos brendan venter met ackers en dalk paul tru as agterlyn afrigter is net wat ons nodig het
@ grootblousmile:
Maklike oplossing stel die afrigter vir twee jaar aan met die automatiese konyrak verlenging indien hy sy targets haal bv 80% wen ratio oor twee jaar en dan key jy nog twee jaar by op voirwaarde dat jy jou 80%volhou
grootblousmile wrote:
If HM gets two more years it means he had 6, not two.
Other subsequent coaches gets 4 years, with the WC falling in the middle of their time
@ grootblousmile:
@ nortie:
Meaning two years before the WC to 2 years after the WC, hence saying give Meyer till 2017, and the new coach is appointed from 2018 to 2021, a 4 year period.
Thereafter, 2022- 2025, ie , covers the WC of 2023 etc
smallies wrote:
Dis n dubbel edged sword, as prestasie die kriteria is gaan die coach elke keer net konsentreer op die sterkste moontlike span want die wen is al wat tel.
Ek dink goed soos spelers ontdek en iets los waarmee die volgende coach kan werk moet ook tel, watter diepte het HM gebou? Die jong ouens waaroor hy, Matfield en FdP nou so brag is net in die span omdat Morne teen Australia touch gemis het, Jean beseer was en Jaques Fourie onfiks was.
Nie Pollard, De Allende of Kriel was sy eerste keuse nie
My view is that Meyer should not coach the Boks again for the following main reasons:
1. He had his chance and proved to be a failure. Although his overall winning percentage is very similar to those of his immediate predecessors his success rate against the All Blacks ( the team all teams who aspire to be world champions should measure themselves against) is dismal in comparison to the others ( Meyer – 14%, de Villiers- 57%, White- 33%, Mallett- 50%) while he also lost against Argentina and Japan.
2. He failed to advance South Africa’s style of play during his 4 years and could not bring it into line with modern standards and reverted back into his shell when the going got tough. His failure to realise that the Boks were never going to be able to strangle the top opposition to death cost him dearly at the end as he had no plan B.
3. He appears to be by nature an overly conservative person who lacks self-confidence and seems unwilling or even scared to take risks or to move out of his own comfort zone. As a result he surrounded himself with relatively weak back room staff and a number of past their prime players who bought easily ( or have bought long ago) into his way of thinking and would not challenge his views with any vigour or conviction.
4. He failed to embrace transformation through his 4 years in charge. The fact that SA had to start a world cup semifinal 21 years after re admittance with an ex Zimbabwean prop and 2 over the hill wings as the only players of colour is just not good enough in the eyes of the majority of the SA’s population. Whether a person agrees with transformation or racial engineering or whether it is wrong or right is not the point.. it is a fact of life that must be dealt with at this stage in our country.
Personally I do not believe he will ever be able to free his mind from his fears and from the shackles of conservative thinking and the sooner he goes the better.
Forget about a foreign coach. The Laurie Mains experiment failed at the Cats since the Kiwi didn’t “fully appreciate” the required racial make-up of our teams. All Laurie cared about was winning and that is just not good enough in the RSA!
nortie wrote:
I agree, two years before and two years after the Wold Cup
And you raise the performance requirements to a Championship finalist (i.e. first or second place for the last two years
The problem is most coaches won’t sign a contract if they don’t have a free reign picking the side
If your nuts are on the block you’ll want to have all means to your disposal to do your job to the best of your ability
@ Victoriabok:
“The problem is most coaches won’t sign a contract if they don’t have a free reign picking the side”
Meyer had a free reign picking his side and squad. Same 3 PoC who started the 2007 and 2011 WC’s, and for the rest he got what and who he wanted.
Bring his Blue Bull stalwarts out of retirement, no problem, he got them
Got his boetie boetie yes men as support staff, no problem.
Ignore the cries of the rugby nation to give a guy like Jaco Kriel and some of the Lion players a go, no problem, they can play CC, we have the team to win the WC….oops, didn’t plan for Japan
@ Victoriabok:
Too many people mistake his passion and wind up the puppets speeches as a sign of a good coach.
If all it took was passion and the ability to dupe dim witted supporters who hang onto your every word then I think Eugene Terblanche would have been the best coach SA has ever seen
kwas wrote:
If the racial makeup of the team is so important we should perhaps accept that we’ll never win anything of value again
And we could be like Wales, very passionate about rugby but always still losing
And settle for a team that reflects the racial demographics of South Africa, the run on team consisting of 7 blacks, 5 whites, 2 coloureds and 1 Indian
nortie wrote:
I’m referring to good coaches, like a foreign coach
Victoriabok wrote:
Currently the SR and Bok coach, including PDivvie, ignored selecting according to the racial make up criteria….and even with mostly white sides we have won farkall of note.
What would the difference be?
Victoriabok wrote:
That would depend on the money offered.
Eddie signed a huge deal at the Stormers, I guess he will have to accept the support coaches he is saddled up with?
I agree that even if Hansen takes over and he is stuck with van Graan and Ricardo Laubser he will also look like a plank.
Maybe SARU can’t afford a top rate coach and sponsor top rate support staff?
Having said that, I think even the u/6 coach at Auckland will be an improvement over what we currently have in Meyer
nortie wrote:
Again I’m referring to our passion, not the coach
When we lose against the AB’s with two points or the game at Ellispark a couple of years ago, we’re still happy because we played well
The Kiwi supporters EXPECT to win, always, and if they lose there is hell to pay
We just accept it, first we were level with the AB’s now were lagging behind, but it’s still ok, because we gave them hell although we lost
We even accept losses against Argentina at home
We accept our Super Teams under performing year after year, yet the stands ( especially Newlands* ) remain full
We don’t vote with our feet by boycotting the stadiums or use our wallets by cancelling Supersport when they
keep delivering this drivel
By not doing anything we keep getting more of the same
The same useless administrators keep “managing” the game although you can’t really use the term, mismanagement is probably more apt
How long did the Bulls stick with useless Ludeke and the even more useless Barend is still in charge
How long did the Cheetahs have Naka with no results to show?
Barney appointed Gold with no track record?
And we’ll have more of the same in 2016
In the case of SARU and Hoskins, absentee spineless eunuch would be the best description
If our Super teams aren’t performing and reaching finals, it shows our players can’t compete at that level, so is it reasonable to expect them to compete at an even higher test level?
*- The Stormers pulled of quite a feat with Eddie Jones and the Stormers will play in a Super final or win in within the next two years
nortie wrote:
We’ll talk again in future when we can only beat Italy half the time, and we regularly lose against Scotland…
nortie wrote:
You might be correct, SARU might not have the money
I think HM would have liked to have the support staff he had in 2007
Todd Louden for attack coach and the Brit for defense coach
@ Victoriabok:
I read a report over the weekend (I think) that SARU are busy bankrolling the Academies of EP, Border, SWD & I think another “small” one…
“Jump on the Gravy Train, boys!”
BrumbiesBoy wrote:
The hatcheries of future Springboks
More 80kg locks, 70kg loose forwards and 45kg wings coming down the assembly line
@ Victoriabok:
The last thing meyer can ever blame the failure of (2015) on is players of colour or quotas.
MacroPolo wrote:
No one said that
But why did Paige go instead of Reinach?
He wasn’t in the Bok setup
Victoriabok wrote:
And Brussouw
MacroPolo wrote:
Why did he take four flyhalves?
Pollard, Lambie, Morne and Schalk? 😛
Shooie, no doubting HM’s commitment to the cause, even his Energade is green!!!
And with that I bid you all a fond farewell, time to
9 @ robzim:
You give plenty of reasons why Heyneke Meyer should not be coach.
Now give us workable alternatives who CAN and WILL want to take up the position… and be better than Heyneke Meyer.
Then, and only then would or could we buy into your reasons why Heyneke should not continue as Springbok coach.
Read the article again… look at who is looked at by myself as possible alternatives and why they would either not be available and / or be better than Heyneke… then suggest someone or a few others… and suggest why they would be better candidates.
There are’nt that many available, is the conclusion you would undoubtedly come to, I tell you!
I think Smallies might have been closest to a viable alternative coach, in Brendan Venter… not with his assistant backline coach in Paul Treu though!
Easy to say, dismiss the coach… another matter totally to put someone better in his place!
24 @ MacroPolo:
Who said Heyneke Meyer could blame the failure of 2015 on players of colour or on quotas??
I said any FUTURE foreign international coach, one to replace Heyneke, would be difficult to secure and would have to be half-mad to accept a job in SA (in SA, like in no other rugby country, he will also have to be willing to deal with the political dispensation as well)…
You don’t think that would be a vital impediment to most.. or at least a lot of foreigners?
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