Allister Coetzee
Stormers and Western Province coach Allister Coetzee is in high demand to coach in the Japanese league, according to reports.
Coetzee, who still has one year left on his contract with WP, is believed to be a strong candidate to replace Gary Gold as coach of the Kobe Kobelco Steelers in Japan. Gold is set to leave the Steelers to take up the role of Sharks Director of Rugby.
Meanwhile, WP’s Vodacom Cup and Under 21 coach, John Dobson, is also believed to be on the wish list of the EP Kings, while there is also interest in Dobson’s backline coach, Dawie Snyman.
Gert Smal, WP’s Director of Rugby, said they would like to keep all current coaches at the union for the next three years and are busy with negotiations.
Sport24
“We’re looking at a structure in which we can stimulate the coaches to enhance their development. I’d like to have the negotiations sorted by the end of the month,” said Smal.
“We can’t control the fact that there is outside interest in them. (But) we’d like to create an environment where they feel they can develop. They must also want to be at WP. If it’s merely about money, then it’s another story.”
Coetzee, who coached WP to two Currie Cup titles in the last three years, will coach the Stormers in this year’s Super Rugby competition.
They start their campaign away to the Bulls in Pretoria on 14 February.
grootblousmile wrote:
Yes, THIS year is definitely our year. 😆
30 @ grootblousmile:
I’m saying we see on black and white the amounts top players earn in Japan or France etc and what their earnings are compared to that in SA.
I have never seen the same details of what coaches earn, and if Gold chooses to leave Japan and come coach in SA, I can only assume that the salary difference can’t be that much, otherwise he would never even consider moving.
Because certain players are earning big bucks we automatically assume that the coaches are on the same level, but until we see that for a fact it’s only assumption from our side.
Maybe a top franchise coach in SA earns more or equal to a club side coach in Japan?
32 @ nortie:
I disagree
28 @ nortie:
Im sure if a coach can negotiate a proper contract they will be well looked after not too mention the benefits of coaching in either Japan or South Africa.
30 @ grootblousmile:
Why does a coach need to either have fibre or lack it to go to Japan? It will most definitely be a fascinating experience and somewhere a guy like Stonehouse (who will be someones assistant) will also reap certain benefits there in Japan.
6.? You mean World Rugby needs to force the Northen Hemisphere to share their money with the South? 😕
34 @ MacroBull:
Flok, ek het nou ‘n langerige verduideliking geskrywe, toe verloor ek hom in cyberspace.
Force is not what I mean, but taking part in tournaments where both Southern and Northern Teams play… naturally will allow for a distribution of THOSE broadcasting deal moneys.
The difference for instance in the TOTAL BROADCASTING REVENUE stream between Super Rugby IN COMPARISON WITH the new European format is massive… staggeringly massive!
What each participating team gets as share of the pie there, compared to what each side gets in Super Rugby is not even in the same ball park.
34 @ MacroBull:
I was referring to Jake’s lack of fibre.
He’s now been to the Brumbies, Sharks, Tonga and Montpellier in the space of a couple of years already. Where’s the loyalty in that?
Stonehouse on the other hand has been with the Pumas for 7 years, if I am not mistaken… and he’ll certainly get opportunities in Japan he never would have gotten here. For him it means a growth spurt and making himself more sought after (as a rugby coach)… that I understand… and support!
@ grootblousmile:
I know, but that is like our Currie Cup having teams from all over Africa join in to support their revenues, While also traveling to their countries.
The problem I see as that Top 14 teams wont be keen to traveling here either.
37 @ MacroBull:
We already know Toulon and Saracens and a few others are salivating at the opportunity to play the likes of the Sharks, Bulls Stormers… I bet the same applies to them playing against the likes of the Crusaders, Chiefs, Waratahs, Reds, Brumbies.
Don’t ask me about a possible competition structure, as I have not gotten my head around that…
… but damn man, imagine the Revenue streams that could generate!
Even if you have to break it down into Levels, according to rankings….
Imagine 300 Million Euro Broadcasting deals for 30 teams (maybe in two tiers of 15 to make it work) = That is close to 4.5 Billion Rand, devided by 30 = R 150 Million per side!
What do we get under Super Rugby, maybe R 300 Million devided by 15 = R 20 Million per team, of which SARU takes a princely sum.
It is just quick figures drawn right from the top of my head… and like I say it has not been properly investigated at all.
@ grootblousmile:
I know what the positives are for us, i swear i do… but these guys are hardly traveling here for friendlies, I am not sure a 4 week tour would be worth it, it is something they or their fans are not used to, to to mention the revenue outside the euro would be peanuts unless we significantly raise ticket prices etc, including DSTV prescriptions that would cost nearly R1000 just to afford rugby.
There is no debate on what it would mean to us to have the french share their pie… but why would they share their pie?
Again it is like we open the Currie Cup to include 8 other African countries.
38 @ grootblousmile:
Ultimately a global season is a MUST.
It’s not as if most of the Rugby playing sides in Northern Europe will be playing in 35 deg C heat if they switch to a NH summer season is it?
Add to that the attraction of the UK based sides then not having to directly compete with Association Football for bums on seats throughout the full season, and the better weather, and it has to be a win / win situation for all parties.
Biggest problem would be the (evil?) ANZAC alliance that would sudenly have to burder the biggest part of a k@k travel schedule and would undoubtedly kick against it.
Food for thought.
MacroBull wrote:
Something which in my humble opinion, could only help develop Rugby Union on the African continent IF DONE CORRECTLY.
But really developing the sport globally in not in SARU or World Ruby’s (IRB) best interests is it?
39 @ MacroBull:
Who says ticket prices have to change?
Has ticket prices changed in Aus, New Zealand and SA due to Super Rugby… or has prices changed according to economical factors?
The Big money does not lie in ticket prices, the big money lies in Broadcasting Deals and Sponsorships.
Let me give you an example of International Sponsorship vs SA Sponsorship…
It is Currently the Vodacom Bulls right… and the DHL Stormers ect, ect.
Now imagine for a minute the Bulls attract an International Sponsor… and they are called the BT Bulls… do you think, with the currency conversion rates between North and South that it would not be extremely viable for both the Sponsor and the Bulls? The Bulls would probably get 3 times more and it would still cost BT half as much as it would by sponsoring a Northern side…. for the same exposure in the same Tournament!
The world is becoming small man, a real global village…. and we have to think in THOSE terms!
40 @ Scrumdown:
Fark, I’ve been pleading for a Global Season… like forever!
Like you say, it is an eventual MUST!
@ grootblousmile:
What about the french clubs decreasing their pie value to please us… Your avoiding this?
@ grootblousmile:
would be interesting if we could attract a forreign sponsor, seeing as it never happened in Super Rugby, and it would be interesting if it happens in the ERC? would convince me if it is something actually being practiced.
44 @ MacroBull:
Would you care to detail how and why they would decrease their pie value.
Broadcasting rights are all about viewership numbers.. which directly correlates to income revenue for the Broadcasters… through viewer subscriptions, advertisability, sub-selling broadcasting rights… ect.
Are you intimating that a properly structured cross-hemisphere tournament would attract smaller Broadcasting rights fees?? If so, why would that be?
45 @ MacroBull:
Maybe things like that would even benefit the South African economy… should an International Sponsor decide to also invest in a country where they now suddenly might have a new captive market… due to something like a Sponsorship in one of that country’s rugby sides.
Fark, what I would not give for BT (British Telecom) investing in South Africa and giving Helkom their due carrot up the arse!
We already have Asics (Japan) sponsoring the Springboks… as well as BMW… ect, ect.
Imagine the spin-off effects of a cross-hemisphere tournament… give you a little example… suddenly Rugby-Talk is also read much more valiantly from France, England, Ireland, Wales, Scotland ect… and our readership skyrockets.
Surely the same applies to SuperSport, the Travel industry, Hospitality industry (visitors and flights), Retail needs, Merchandise… the list is virtually endless.
@ grootblousmile:
@ MacroBull:
SA’s big local derby’s already attract far more spectators to the ground than the majority of UK games.
Sure there are exceptions like when Harlequins play Sarries at Twickenham, but I read that the record for a crowd at a club’s “home” ground was recently set when Wasps played their first game at their new home the Ricoh Arena, with in tte region of 27 000 attending.
Of course we must bear in mind that the majority of Rugby grounds in the UK are actually VERY small, a fact borne out by the RWC utilising only 1 CLUB GROUND for the tournament, but prefering instead to utilise football stadia for the most park.
The financial aspects of the different (NH v SH) markets can also be seen in the fact that Wasps, one of the “smaller” Aviva premiership clubs PURCHASED the Ricoh for GBP 30 Million, something that not many SH sides could presently do.
48 @ Scrumdown:
Correction. Wasps bought the first 50% of the stadium from Coventry City Council for GBP 30 M, and have now completed the purchase of the remaining amount from the Alan Edward Higgs Charity.
I cannot find the amount paid for the second 50%, but for every ticket sold 50 pence (approx ZAR 9) will be donated by Wasps to the charity.
Wasps also donated 3000 tickets to the first to local school children. Something that I am sure will not go amiss in a city that, despite being a “Rugby city” has been starved of top class Rugby for a decade.
48 @ Scrumdown:
I can see you work for yourself and therefore understand a bit about the basics of simple economics.
I agree with you on all fronts.
I cannot imagine a cross-hemisphere deal which would not benefit the Southern Hemisphere (provided the right negotiators deal on behalf of the South and not the SARU muppits -who will screw SA over… and over… and over).
Now if a SMALLER CLUB in the UK can afford the R 500 Million (GBP 30 Million) over there, just imagine the Bulls, Stormers, Lions, Sharks, Cheetahs… a few years down the line…
@ grootblousmile:
Yes, if you look at the Celtic sides for example who are being completely bullied by the french and the English, because they simply don’t bring enough to the table financially. I don’t see us bringing in much more to the pot meaning we will have to suck up substantially with less franchises participating… and if people have been moaning about the Aussies, the French and Poms will rule us.
and would the travel industry? sure we might benefit from a few euros if they visit here, but if a team like the stormers travel to paris with maybe 30 loyal fans, it simply does not compare to Toullonaisians or Londoners that would pitch up in their 100’s if not thousands… Again, nothing we can contribute.
And yes, I know rugby fans wanting to go north will always say “well sure id love to travel with my team to Paris” but it is surely not sustainable over a few years?
grootblousmile wrote:
There is absolutely no debate against this.
51 @ MacroBull:
The Celts suffer (generally), because generally they do not have the same quality sides or amount of quality sides and also do not have the same viewership or followability (Rugby is not their national sport), whereas South Africa and New Zealand have massive, massive sides and massive rugby following.
Aussie is already in much the same boat here amongst us Southerners, as is Argentina, of course…. yet they seemed to be able negotiate a lekker deal for themselves, despite that negative situation…
Look, I hear you when you say there are pittfalls… I do not doubt that for a second.
@ grootblousmile:
My opinion is that we dont really hold any cards if we even went to a negotiation table with the French and Poms, we will be completely at their mercy.
For instance they would never ever consider having a final outside of Europe, the losses in revenue would be astounding.
We would never be allowed a 6th team, hell we would be lucky to have 4 teams participate.
We will travel more than they do. for example, if the bulls were pooled with with 3 euro team and an Australasian team they would spend up to 8 weeks on the road.
54 @ MacroBull:
If the World’s top 3 Rugby Countries…. OK, OK, the Ausmob are not number 3 at present… jointly make a presentation.. and do it well, I cannot see why the South can’t be in a competative negotiation situation.
Fact is, the North would always want to be able to measure themselves against the South’s major forces in rugby terms.
Imagine the world and broadcasters interest in a tournament where the Bulls, Stormers & Sharks play against Toulon, Toulouse, Saracens, Bath, Leicester, Crusaders, Chiefs, Waratahs, Reds, Brumbies, Auckland Blues, Racing Metro… and that is just a few of the sides…
Add to that the Lions, Cheetahs, Southern Kings, Highlanders, Hurricanes, Rebels, Force, Argies team, Japanese team PLUS 12 more Euro / UK teams….
Work out a wangle where there are 2 or 3 conferences (not based on Geography) – 2 Groups of 18 or 3 Groups of 12.
Biggest positive for SA is the Broadcasting Time Zone factors… all aligned to the UK and Europe times.
@ MacroBull:
@ grootblousmile:
Of course there are pitfalls. There are in everything in life.
Flip, Neil Armstrong would never had walked on the moon if JFK (the Yank, not the RT blogger) was too sh1t scared of the potential pitfalls to push the Apollo space program.
As for what “we” bring to the neotiating table, FFS we bring a century of dominating the NH Rugby playing sides at ALL levels.
Do you not think that our French Rugby “brothers” would like to have world bragging rights?
Add to that the fact that SA has an “almost” bottomless reserve of players capable of playing at all levels, and suddenly you open up a whole new can of worms for the French to dine upon.
Sure they already rape our player reserves but you can bet your last 5c on the fact that if they had easier access to players from primary school level up, they would throw money at our domestic market in the hope of reaping the rewards.
Basically it all boils down to a paradigm shift in the way that Rugby people worldwide THINK and run Rugby.
Either make the professional side of Rugby TOTALLY professional, complete with all the nuances of international “work” for the top players, or just go back to / stick to the “old ways” with the amateurs holding the status quo.
I reiterate though, that as long as the founder members of the IRB / World Rugby have the right of veto on any vote, Rugby Union will REMAIN a minority sport.
Anyway, I am speculating… Day Dreaming… hoping.
Would be an initiative I would investigate and champion though, if I was in the position to do it…
@ grootblousmile:
Has the ANZACS ever expressed interest in going north?
Only Japan I think , the time zone difference would be the killer.
If anyone would attempt it it will be SARU.
MacroBull wrote:
SARU = All mouth and trousers. IE No b@lls
@ grootblousmile:
The french play 26 games in the top 14 excluding play offs while about 6 definite games in the ERC, 9 games for finalists.
I sincerely doubt they would drop the top 14( best broadcasting deal in the world ) so where would they squeeze 11 or 17 conference games from? Excluding play offs.
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