Yes, I’ve deliberately inverted the WP Logo, for disrespecting the Lions
WP coach John Dobson has named his team to take on the Lions in a friendly at Ellis Park in Johannesburg on Friday. Kick-off is at 19:00.
One of 2 things must happen as a result of the Western Cape deciding not so send their Super Rugby side, but rather a WP “No-Namers Side” consisting of a mix of Vodacom Cup and Under 21 players, to face the Golden Lions. Either the Golden Lions must go on and man-shame WP for daring to disrespect the Lions so much and at the same time proving that the Lions are indeed still a team with Super Rugby quality. Alternatively, if the Lions do not manage to win against this mottley crew, they must lose and lose well, so that it is clear for all and sundry to see that the final demise of the Lions is imminent.
Alongside Stormers scrumhalf Nic Groom and hooker Scarra Ntubeni, Dobson has named a match-22 including 12 Under-21 players, as well as a handful of club and Vodacom Cup players.
“It’s an exciting WP team and a good opportunity for these talented young players to make a step up against a Lions outfit that is settled and playing some great attacking rugby.” said Dobson.
“The friendly is of great importance to us as we prepare for the domestic competitions, as it provides crucial game time out of competition phase and an opportunity for many of these players to put their hands up for inclusion in the squads for the domestic competitions later this year.”
Golden Lions coach, Johan Ackermann, has also announced his side for the match.
CJ van der Linde, Hendrik Roodt and Derick Minnie all return to the starting side, while Ruan Combrinck moves into the starting line-up at fullback.
Teams:
Lions: 15. Ruan Combrinck, 14. Deon van Rensburg, 13. Stokkies Hanekom, 12. Alwyn Hollenbach, 11. Anthony Volmink, 10. Marnitz Boshoff, 9. Michael Bondesio, 8. Warren Whiteley (captain), 7. Derick Minnie, 6. Jaco Kriel, 5. Hugo Kloppers, 4. Hendrik Roodt, 3. CJ van der Linde, 2. Robbie Coetzee, 1. JC Janse van Rensburg
Replacements: 16. Francois du Toit, 17. Jacques van Rooyen, 18. Gavin Annandale, 19. Willie Britz, 20. Ross Cronje, 21. Dylan des Fountain, 22. Lionel Cronje, 23. Kobus de Kock, 24. Julian Redelinghuys.
WP: 15. Dillyn Leyds, 14. Pat Howard, 13. Berton Klaasen, 12. Michael van der Spuy, 11. Devon Williams, 10. Tim Swiel, 9. Nic Groom, 8. Rayn Smid, 7. Sikhumbuzo Notshe, 6. Joshua Katzen, 5. Wilhelm van der Sluys, 4. Taz Fuzani, 3. Dylan Rogers, 2. Scarra Ntubeni, 1. Ashley Wells
Replacements: 16. Stephan Coetzee, 17. Allistair Vermaak, 18. Jean Kleyn, 19. Carel du Preez, 20. Ryan Olivier, 21. Godlin Masimla, 22. Kobus van Wyk.
Travesty!
I don’t care what the motivations is, this is just wrong from WP!
I disagree. Why should they risk their Super Rugby players against a team that have shamed themselves many times over the past years and insulted the fans that pay money week after dwindling week to see them disappoint.
We still have unfinished business in the Super Rugby competition. Our players need the rest, and only those who need the match practice were selected.
Who knows, there is still a mathematical chance that they may meet the Lions in a promotion/relegation match, in which case the Lions will face a full strength team.
PS I doubt that the Sharks will do any different.
Any team playing in the S15 would do it, this is no disgrace
Lions kan maar gaan k@k dankie, they had plenty a year and millions to make something of themselves but no…
Gena, Stormersboy, put yourselves in the position of us Lions fans. We weren’t expecting a full strength Stormers team, but at least a team consisting of fringe players. Then your miserable Union sends a VC Cup strength team. That after the agreement was for a Stormers team. I hope the Lions give the WP team such a klap that that they never want to play rugby again.
This move has elevated my dislike for the team from the Cape to even greater heights. Not that you guys care. I just hope the Sharks don’t follow suit.
Stormersboy / Gena,
You guys are missing the point, somewhat deliberately I might add!
SARU brokered a deal when the negotiations were done for voting one Super Rugby Franchise out to make way for the Southern Kings, and all the Super Rugby Franchises were part and parcel of this deal brokered.
The deal was basically that all the participating SA Super Rugby Franchises would play one game against the non-participating Super Rugby Franchise in the year (s) in which the non-participating team sits out.
Now in my book that means that the participating SA Super Rugby Franchises must send their Super Rugby team (a realisticly strong one) to play against the MTN Lions and show good faith in helping the Non-participant have a good enough season to stay strong and to level the playing field for when it comes to Promotion / Relegation situations.
Now tell me what WP has done here, does it firstly fall within the ambit of playing their Super Rugby side against the MTN Lions and secondly is it at all in the spirit of keeping the MTN Lions strong for the Promotion / Relegation system?
If your answer is NO to both or even one of the 2 criteria… then you should react like I have done.
If your answer is YES to both criteria then I hope your team is the victim at the end of next year, to sit out in 2015, so that the same can be done to your side!
And believe me, the Stormers barely averted this season already to have possibly been that unfortunate victim… and might even be down a bit more next year if they’re not careful…. so let the wheel turn.
It’s a live and let live situation, and the Stormers / WP are being as selfish as possible on this one.
I am no Lions fan, but this is alienating me even more from the Stormers / WP than their arrogant supporters managed to do ever before.
@ grootblousmile:
My point exactly. That bunch from Cape Town are a bunch of traitors.
@ Lion4ever – I do feel for the Lions supporters, off course I do
But I feel for your rugby union as much as you feel for mine…
I don’t mind if they beat them by 80 points.
If this is such a big issue, let the Lions management make an official complaint to SARU then, and if the WP union are found in breach of contract, let them pay or get a banned or whatever
GBS, you based your reply on what you think the contract is (in your book) or should be, do you have the facts or is it just assumptions?
8 @ Gena_ZA:
It was well documented in the Media why each participating Super Rugby Franchise would play against the MTN Lions, I do not have to make a further point about it.
Care to answer to the criteria I suggested?
Please direct me to the complaints (official or reported – media or online) except for our honored author and the Lions supporters on this site to this match and the composition of the visiting team
From the WP circles it is seen as a friendly game, see their website
The lions website, well it is “under construction”
I can’t find any (yet); so this topic:
“Lions Challenge: WP name their side to disrespect the Lions” is just your opinion until officially supported by the Lions Management
I sort of see both sides of the discussion, but, based on the teams selected, what kind of result do you expect, that the Lions win easily or not?
11 @ Peter J:
I guess we will only see that on Friday night… but looking at the team sheets, the Lions should walk this one.
If the Lions don’t win this one comfortably… well, then they are in bigger trouble than we know they are in!
Well then if the Lions don’t give the WP and absolute snotting then this will have proven to have been the correct decision.
The WP / Stormers showed how much respect they have for te Lions when they voted them out of SR after having committed in writing to accept the Kings into SR as long as it didn’t prejudice any of the currently participating sides.
Why should a back stabber now be any different to some 9 months ago?
The Cape Crusaders were quick enough to hold out their hands begging for Lions loan players when the injury plague struck them early in the SR campaign, and now they basically thumb their nose at SARU’s INSTRUCTION that all SR franchises must play a game against the non participating franchise.
The Stormers / WP management have no scruples and their word is about as much use as a piece of used bog roll. Finished en verby!
As for the Lions, how their management allow this sort of shyte is beyond me. Maybe they are hoping to make their point on the field.
Then there is the issue of the forked tongue, spineless village idiots that run SARU.
Will they take the Cape Crusaders to task? Of course not. That would indicate that they actually have control of Rugby Union in SA.
I have a feeling in my water that the result on Friday evening may well be something of an embarresment to the prats in blue and white, but the exercise will be of F-All consequence because it will have no meaning, least of all to the Lions who were hoping to get some meaningful opposition from the Bergbokke and the Sharks as preparation for the suppossed promotion / relegation “series”.
Thanks GBS for at least having the b@lls to say what’s right.
14 @ Scrumdown:
I am quite miffed by this….
@ Scrumdown:
You’re getting angry at the wrong people.
You should be directing your anger against the Union that actually betrayed you. The GLRU.
Each year for years.
Don’t blame us for looking after our interests. We aren’t there to look after yours. We have a bog fight ahead and excuse us if we put our player management ahead of some “friendly”.
As I say, I will be amazed if the Sharks do any different.
Nothing personal, you’re a passionate guy and I respect that, but I think you are misdirecting this anger in this case.
16 @ Stormersboy:
With the greatest of respect to you, you have absolutely NO knowledge of me or my Rugby history or the literally THOUSANDS of hours that I have personally put in in order to bring about change within the GLRU from WITHIN THE STRUCTURES.
So for you to tell me that I am getting “angry at the wrong people” is baseless statement.
I am long over being angry at the fools in Cape Town. Whether they are at WP/Stormers or those prats at SARU.
As for the GLRU, I will ALWAYS lobby for positive and professional change, even though I am no longer part of the structures.
As for the Stormers / WP, they signed a letter to SARU re the Kings that was sent on behalf of the participating franchises and then WENT BACK ON THEIR WORD.
That is a fact. It points to a lack of honour and underhandedness, further strengthened by the team they are sending to JHB this weekend.
ALL SR participating franchises are supposedly OBLIGED to send their strongest available teams for these “friendly” but COMPULSORY games.
Enough said.
I wish the Stormers and WP all the best for the rest of the season. Whether they play with, or are blessed with honour or not.
Long may their mountain have no peak, their bos be fyn, and their drivers the worst in the known universe.
17 Scrumdown wrote:
Bwahahaha
Long may their bos be fyn…… hie hie hie hie hie
At least you still have a sense of humor!
@ Scrumdown:
What letter are you referring to?
Who voted for the Kings and against the Lions at the end of the day? Not just the Stormers.
Also, you may well be correct that the Stormers are obliged in terms of the agreement to provide a team for the friendlies and not a WP branded team. The Lions are free to take that up with SARU and I would urge them to do so.
The agreement almost certainly does not guarantee a “Best of available players” clause. If it does then the Lions have my support to hammer the management at WPRU and Stormers (who, by the way, I regard with a healthy amount of disdain).
That is a SANZAR ruling that has been in place, but not for friendlies.
It just seems to me that you are letting some deeper seated anger against the stormers affect your post.
Has the GLRU complained? I haven’t seen any reporting on it.
My oh my, where was the public outcry when they rolled over Samoa, to think an INTERNATIONAL side send an understrength and undermotivated team to play the Lions, reams of disrespect, unprofessional etiquette and utter low blows, it sticks.
So the Lions beat them bloody good so all is okay now and the Lions are gods again – love the double standards.
Please link me to the public petition and letters to the IRU in this regard
Lekker when you pick your arguments nê
The Lions should have demanded a young Stormers/WP side to come and play against them, the mere fact that the Stormers are injury deprived and the remainder are with the Boks should have been the justification. How dare they further potentially injure players that are deserving of their place in the Super 15, no respect, shameful.
Now see this crooked logic above, typed on purpose, just from another point of view
To each his own, I am not saying the Stormers did right here at all, I would have preferred a well balanced match, say a 3rd team should have been on par with the Lions. But when you attack my team and we respond, don’t get pissed
P.S. Still show me any article where the Lions are complaining about this and not a few supporters and rugby bloggers
20 @ Gena_ZA:
The problem is, you’re not justifying the stance that the Stormers / WP took, rather you are attacking the Lions for either being kak or not complaining about it.
One has to defend one’s team, but there comes a time when you have to be critical about their approach too… and one has to keep some modicum of objectivity in the matter.
If you tell me you hope the once proud Golden Lions Rugby Union dies a final death, not to survive… then I understand your motivation.
BUT, would it not ultimately be better if we have 6 strong Super rugby Franchises, giving each other a hell of a go. Would that ultimately not be better for SA Rugby?
Off course I want 6 or even more top Franchises to be great on all levels, but that is not the argument here.
It is simple, it was stated the Stormers are disrespecting the Lions – theses are your own unsubstantiated words, that is the only argument
The rest is just people that gets emotionally engaged in the debate
Read again, I said I am not happy with an underpowered team sent, for the sake off rugby I would have loved a decent and fair contest
But this attack is taken out of context now
So before we really start pissing each other off, lets agree to disagree
22 @ Gena_ZA:
We don’t have to piss each other off, we’re debating the issue.
Anyway, you feel like you do and you defend your team’s honour… whereas I’m trying to look from the outside in and is of the belief that it is wrong.
So, we have reached an impasse…. and each of us have the right to have our opinion… so let’s not fight… this is not what it was about for me, I did not want to create a fight. If I wanted to create a fight there are certainly easier ways of achieving it.
At least we are all united behind the Junior Bokkies tonight and behind the Springboks on Saturday!
@ grootblousmile:
On the 6 franchises i don’t agree.
I think we play too much rugby, that there should at the most be 4 franchises, that are effectively the CC teams who reach the top 4 each year who play off in the competition the next year.
Kind of like the Heineken Cup. You have to qualify each year.
Stops the complacency that we saw from the Lions in the past.
Encourages player retention as there is always next year
Stops the viewer from getting jaded
Encourages a broader base of strong unions internally.
The only thing it doesn’t do is earn as much money which is the reason that it won’t happen.
24 @ Stormersboy:
I think we’ll ultimately (after 2015) gravitate towards a Super Rugby situation where we have 2 Groups of 9 sides who compete in their 2 groups, whereafter the top 6 to 9 sides will continue to battle it out for the eventual crown… whilst the bottom lot battle it out for the 2nd Division Cup (if I could use that term).
In that case we might get the best of both worlds really…. less rugby per side PLUS South Africa will get their 6th Franchise participating PLUS the broadcasters and moneygrabbers should be happy.
Don’t think my wife will be very happy because it would ultimately mean I watch even MORE rugby….. hehehe
@ grootblousmile:
Maybe. I still like the idea (in principal) that a small CC union, like, say Griquas, can have a great season, reach the top 4 and get a crack at the big leagues.
19 @ Stormersboy:
Re the “letter”
From Rugby365 (http://www.rugby365.com/article/47376-can-saru-save-the-lions)
In a recent letter to SARU the existing franchises made it clear that they stand united and none of them should be excluded in 2013.
According to the franchises’ letter they “unanimously” decided that it is imperative:
* That the inclusion of the Kings will benefit South African rugby in general;
* That none of the existing franchises shall be prejudiced by the Kings’ inclusion in any way whatsoever;
* That none of the existing franchises shall be eliminated from the tournament in 2013 or at any stage thereafter as a result of the inclusion of the Kings;
* That SARU as custodian of the South African leg of the tournament will ensure that the Kings are included without prejudice to any of the existing franchises.
From sportsindustry.co.za(http://www.sportindustry.co.za/news/view/4043/saru-denies-super-rugby-boycott)
Jurie Roux, CEO of SARU said: ‘No threat of a boycott was made. But the franchises have made it plain that the only option to them is the expansion of Vodacom Super Rugby.’
‘They also pledged their support for the Kings’ inclusion in 2013 as well as for SARU’s efforts to persuade SANZAR to include a sixth South African franchise.’
‘The existing franchises will endeavour to provide all necessary assistance and support to SARU in its negotiations with SANZAR to ensure the inclusion of six South African franchises in 2013 onwards.’
Roux said that SARU would continue discussions with its SANZAR partners around participation in the 2013 tournament.
There are literally 100’s of references readily available if you’re really interested, I’m sure you know how to use an internet search engine.
As for who else voted for the Kings, it’s common knowledge that the Cheetahs also did so which resulted in a very public incident of Kevin de Klerk snubbing the FS Rugby Union’s Exco by sitting alongside the field during a game. That particualr hatchet has supposedly been buried according to de Klerk.
From Rugby 365 (http://www.rugby365.com/article/51674-lions-bear-no-grudges)
The Cheetahs may have betrayed the Lions, but the latter will hold no grudges as the two franchises look to put the past behind them.
Golden Lions Rugby Union President Kevin de Klerk told this website in an exclusive interview that he is willing to “move on” in the interest of the game.
This follows the announcement that the Free State and Golden Lions Rugby Unions have “forged” new ties and agreed on mutual co-operation, even though there is no chance of the revival of the Cats franchise in the near future.
Following the acrimony in the wake of the Lions’ axing from Super Rugby last year – when the Cheetahs were one of the teams who turned their backs on the Lions and allowed the Kings to replace the Gauteng outfit – the two unions have now ‘kissed and made up’.
Lindsay Mould, President of the Free State Rugby Union, Harold Verster, Managing Director of the Free State Cheetahs (Pty) Limited and Kevin de Klerk, President of the GLRU met in Johannesburg last week.
“I have the utmost respect for Lindsay [Mould],” De Klerk told this website, adding that the Cheetahs requested the ‘make-up’ meeting.
“That [the Cheetahs’ betrayal of the Lions] is now in the past,” the GLRU boss said.
“I am not the kind of person that bears grudges,” De Klerk said, adding: “We want to move forward in a positive manner.
“Rugby is bigger than all of us.”
He added that the Cheetahs must live with the decisions they made last year, when (along with the Stormers) the Cheetahs broke their promise to stand by the Lions.
As for your assersion that “It just seems to me that you are letting some deeper seated anger against the stormers affect your post.” I really don’t understand where you are coming from on that one.
I have absolutely nothing against the Stormers. I’ll certainly never support them, just as I won’t support any other SA SR franchise apart from the Lions. I don’t have a “second” team. I remain a Lions supporter no matter what.
This despite the fact that unlike many Lions supporters who fail to see our Union’s shortcomings, both on and off the field, I am probably the most vocal of critics you’ll find voicing an opinion.
Rather than attacking my standpoint on the Stormers being unable to honour a written commitment that they made regarding the entry of the Kings, it may be more beneficial for your team if their supporters who DO have any code of ethics took the time to point out to the WP / Stormers Exco / management the fact that what they did was not exactly an honourable thing to do.
Just a thought. If the hat fits, wear it.
24 @ Stormersboy:
I agree TOTALLY with you on that point.
But in that case, this year the SA second place team (at this point), the Cheetahs wouldn’t be in the competition. (SR of course)
So even that computation is not infallible.
grootblousmile wrote:
Agree with you fully on this and the potential “fight” comment was not aimed at you.
On the short of the long if our National Rugby administration had not fucked this up, it would have never come to this and not the way I want to discuss rugby, it is meant to make me, you and all of us happy
@ Scrumdown:
Thank you for your clarification.
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