On Rugby-Talk’s live Bulls vs Reds thread I cannot recall anybody complaining about it. Now reading some of the other match reports is see a big uproar about something we never picked up or said a word about. Obstruction or obstructive running.
This will not be a long article because like I said, none of us seemed to pick it up or complain about it. Were we just “politically correct” or gutless enough not to make a fuss about the poor performance by the referee and thus did not make a big issue? If you read other reports, I wonder why and ask whether we have gone soft or do WE see and understand the game better.
The Rugby 365 article says:
“The only blot on what was another sublime performance for the Reds is some of the blatant cheating they are allowed to get away with. You have to wonder when referees are going to start penalising them for the manner in which they interfere with defenders off the ball, away and on the wrong side of ruck.
That often creates the gaps that so regularly appear when they are on attack.
But take nothing away from the Brisbane team, they play to the whistle and if match officials allow them to ‘create’ opportunities like that, they can’t be faulted for continuing to do so”
How did we miss all that? Seems like it is not only against us. A few years back the Brumbies used those tactics , is it now part of the Reds game. Well the comments on the Rugby365 article suggest so.
I quote again, from the comments:
“Good for this article writer for pointing out Reds “blatant cheating”. Not only do they blatantly go off-side at breakdowns, they deliberately run in a manner that blocks a tackler from getting unimpeded to a ball carrier.
Said the writer: “You have to wonder when referees are going to start penalising them for the manner in which they interfere with defenders off the ball, away and on the wrong side of ruck.” (Nothing less than the All Blacks did last season!) “That often creates the gaps that so regularly appear when they are on attack.” Precisely!”
OK that is enough quoting….
Tell us whether you picked up refereeing bias and blatant cheating. I must be honest, as a person who is often critical of referees, I was happy, never picked it up. A few other mistakes yes and some that could have been match defining moments but not this.
A favorite Afrikaans writer JJ Harmse saw the ones we seemed to see and he wrote this in the Rapport (Afrikaans newspaper):
“Ses drieë teen drie vertel egter dat die tuisspan, wat ’n sesde agtereenvolgende oorwinning behaal het, te veel skietgoed gehad het vir die Bulls, maar minstens twee daarvan moes nooit gewees het nie.
Eers is die Bulls sleg te na gekom toe die skeidsregter Bryce Lawrence bevind het ’n skrumbal van die Reds is by die bek uit (that one bdb picked up)– en kort daarna het Zane Kirchner(that happens a lot to Zane, refs believe he holds on , but what about releasing the tackled player) se verdediger hom nooit laat los in ’n duikslag nie en in albei gevalle kon die Reds drieë druk van balle wat eintlik Bulls-ingooie moes gewees het.
Maar dit daar gelaat”
Boohoo! Looks at the scoreboard, cause it will always remain the same…
1@ Rugbyprof:
That’s essentially what SuperBees said…. we were happy here, except for that one scrum incident…
Missed the game but reading about it sounds as if the Reds were that dominant that if they didn’t score from those incidents referred to they would have done so at another time and still probably won comfortably but it is still something that needs to be highlighted if the refs are not blowing the game properly cause when teams are close you can’t have the ref that blatantly being the difference between winning and losing.
if it is not obstructive it must be like this great report from Australia puts it.
“Morahan then ran in for his second (gaining the Reds’ bonus point) after some enthusiastic chasing from replacement Ben Lucas led to Bulls fullback Zane Kirchner being tackled in-goal right under the posts. Form the scrum the Reds ran a move and let the ball do the work before Morahan snuck over in the corner. Again, it was the convincing use of decoy runners who actually look like they are going to be involved (rather than just making the numbers) that opened up the gap”
Earlier in the match report they described the try by Cooper well.
The first try of the match came after the Reds had been pressuring the Bulls line for several phases. Quade spotted a gap and threw an inside dummy, gaining the space to slip between the forwards. The dummy worked so well because Rod Davies was running a great support/decoy line and looked for all the world like he was the target. This believable support line was to be a feature of the attacking game plan the Reds were playing.
We can learn a lot from the Aussies, they really put in some great surprise moves into their games. They simply out think ALL.
Read the whole match report here.
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/review-reds-v-bulls/
ek het gesien teen die stormers hoe cheat die reds met hulle obstruksie,wou niks se nie anders word mens as n slegte verloorder gebrandmerk.die bulls is gister met daardie obstruksie game plan geklop.die reds sal aanhou met dit,hoekom nou ophou refs straf hulle nie,hulle wen.ek hoop hulle kry ref wat weet wat hy doen en geelkaart hulle glorie toe.
Reds doen dit al heel seisoen. Maar as die ref jou nie straf nie, hoekom sal jy ophou daarmee.
Hoogtepunt uit die Bulls/Reds game vir my was daai dom verbaasde uitdrukking op Spies se gesig toe Cooper verby hom hardloop om sy drie te gaan druk!! Priceless!!
@ KingPaul:
Dalk het hy die obstruktiewe hardloop lyn bevraagteken. Julle like dit om ons ou Spiesie af te kraak, dit gee julle tog soveel plesier.
Kyk AC like mos om met die skeidregters slim te wees, hy sal seker maak die Reds se spel word onder hul aandag gebring.
Het jy darem raak gesien die week was daar baie positiewe artikels oor die Stormers en die Bulle was uitmekaar gehaal.
Bulls better…but stuffed
Comment: Rob Houwing, Sport24 chief writer
“There had been occasions, too, where the Reds benefited materially from some dubious refereeing calls against the embattled touring outfit”
All we want for years now is fair and accurate refereeing.
Now go ahead and call it whatever you want but let the moaners about this post come out and say they are 100% happy with the refereeing we get.
Like Rob said further and i agree.
“Nevertheless, ardent Bulls fans and South African enthusiasts more broadly would be deluding themselves considerably if they felt the troops from Pretoria deserved even parity, let alone a much-needed win, from this fixture”
‘morning everyone!!
unfortunately, i’ve missed the bulls/reds game and havent seen any re-runs of it
so i cant comment on the game itself
but
i, like many here, feel that the reds are getting away with a lot of negative stuff in their games … what i cant understand is that none of the refs or assistant refs pick up on it … i think they were penalised ONCE? in the stormers game for obstructing and got away with it for the rest of the game
anyway … back to the future 😀
theres quite a few games i’m looking forward to
..
stormers vs sharks (next weekend)
stormers vs crusaders (7 May)
reds vs crusaders (29 May)
..
then theres the
stormers vs bulls (11 June)
and
*bulls vs sharks (18 June)
*this may just be the one deciding who of the stormers, sharks and bulls will be in the play-offs
#11
hmmm, now i’m either gonna be accused of either
1. being stupid (for predicting that the bulls may still be in the running at the end of the season)
or
2. being an undercover bulls supporter!! 😆
..
#12
You have to be stupid to be an Undercover Bull…but I guess it’s better than openly admitting you’re one these days.
#13
😆
13@ The Saint:
Back to Bulls bashing again, I see…. after 1 week of shame for yourself and your loud potty mouth!
Nobody takes anything you say serious anymore…. nothing!
I’d rather openly admit that I am a Bulls supporter who supports a Team who is mid-table this year after a long run of Super Rugby success, than have to admit like you that I support a team which has been nowhere for 10 year running…. and has a little outside chance for this season.
Grow up… smell the coffee… fat boy!
@ grootblousmile:
Eish ou GBlou,jy moet maar die spottery vat soos n man, ek weet die fat lady het nog nie eens aangetrek vir die show nie maar ons het ouens soos Sainty nodig om die Kaap se moraal hoog te hou. Jy het nog niks gesien nie, dink net as hulle daai 10 jaar droogte breek. Dan sal jy die site moet toemaak.
Nee man laat ou Saint tog nooit verander nie, fark netnou word hy n ordentlike Bull.
16@ superBul:
Spottery issie ‘n probleem nie, hoegenaamd nie.
Dis die keffer-blaffie wat my hinder…
Dis ook nie die Stormers ding wat my hinder nie, hoegenaamd nie, kyk maar net hoe oplettend en deurdag is Stormer-ondersteuners soos Morné Pismier en McLook se kommentaar en Artikels in vergelyking met die keffer-blaffie s’n….
Vergelyk dit byvoorbeeld ook met hoe ek die huidige in-form spelers sien, met 6 of so Stormers wat myns-insiens in die Bok run-on groep behoort te wees teenoor MISKIEN 3 Bulle…. en vergelyk dit met die keffer-blaffie se ou houdingkie.
@ grootblousmile:
Lewe daai keffer brakkie van Handbriekie nog?
Gn wonder jy haat hulle nie :LOL:
Ek het een gehad , hulle is goed om die groot honde wakker te maak. Maar ek het eendag saam op n game drive gewees, toe maak daai keffertjie mos k$k deur die leeus te challenge. Goeie donner ek dog ons en die keffertjie is moerland toe, daai leeu was bykans tussen ons in agter die ding aan. Ek was lus en gooi hom en sy miesies af. My bykans beskuit. Dit was n oop Landie.
18@ superBul:
Ja, die 2 stoepkakkertjies van BonzaiHandbriekie lewe nog…. maar hulle is tipiese keffertjies, sit ‘n moerse lawaai op, maar as die hek per toeval oop is, met ‘n groter hond buite die hek, staan hulle in hulle eie pee en bewe of hardloop stert tussen die bene tot agter een van ons se bene.
Jy moes daai brakkie daar en dan vir die leeu gevoer het….
At this rate the lock pairing of the Bulls wont be the Bok lock pairing….so those guys need to buck up their game. Bakkies appears to run out of puff more often than not. FdP I’m not worried about, he will settle, remember its like only his 3rd or 4th game back after a long layoff….but his shenanigans with the refs under pressure have scotched his chances of ever being a Captain in my eyes. I felt Victor tried hard against the Reds, but his whole team wasn’t behind him. Maybe they’re under instructions to rest during the S15?
I wish they would rest Bismarck at the Sharks, he is getting too much rugby and he will be a game winner at the WC for us.
I am having thoughts of moving Morne’ to fullback and slotting Peter Grant in at flyhalf, with Lambie as the understudy.
As I predicted last year, the Aussies are going for this one (WC). I think NZ will choke.
Oh, the other thing, I think Vermeulen will be the run out no 8 for the Boks on current form. Pity, because I think his aggression in the long run will cost us, but Pierre is not up to scratch at the moment. Once again I think we are trying to play catch up, the Kiwi teams and Aussie teams have worked us out and mark our guys accordingly. Its time for some innovation and varied game plans.
4man
sorry we are a bit out of words and the Stormers are too shy to come out shouting
There is only one way you make sure the referee starts focusing on obstructive running, you tackle the toffee out of the guy obstructing, most of the Bulls just stood and looked at the infringing runner and made no attempt to change the referees mind. You need to make contact with an obstructive runner, only then will it be deemed obstruction.
@ superBul:
Nah….what for….support your team. The Stormers ou’s are quiet because after all these years they can’t believe their luck and wonder how long its going to last.
I don’t like this format, because you don’t automatically support the other Saffa teams…..I can’t do that, so I maar support them against the other Southern Hemisphere pretenders to the crown…..to me loyalty is worth more than short term satisfaction. I am genuinely worried about Vic and Bakkies though, Bekker might be the man to start.
Hoe gaan dit met di “sit by die huis elke dag”?….jy moet bietjie vir jou n FOREX kursus doen and maak bietjie geld van die huis. Ek het die marke gecheck vanoggend en ek raak aan niks….kannie glo mense is so dof….die Dollar is in moelikheid, en omdat dit tradiesie is om Dollars to koop as daar moelik is….nou koop mense Dollars….wat eintlik die probleem is. Euro is ook op en af die laaste paar dae.
@ 4man:
Ek wonder of Bakkies n way kan vind om weer sy spel te speel sonder om die Refs weer op hul perdjies te laat spring. Hy speel nou soos n ou wat se een hand agter sy rug vasgemaak is. Wens hulle wil nou n ander teiken kies en ons ou Bakkies los.
Dit lykseker altyd wreed vir die pipsqueeck refs as so groot ou n kleiner speler loop.
@ superBul:
Ons het oor dit verlede jaar gepraat, ons was almal bang Bakkies word mak, omdat die refs hom target….dit het nou gebeur. Sorry so lank gevat ek was besig buite, nou terug by die lessenaar. Heerlike dag vandag. My swaer hulle kom vir die pas naweek en n bietjie langer dan gaan hule n boot reis doen op die kanale van Engeland. Die kinders gaan almal hier wees, so die huis is vol…tien mense. Lyk my Jason en die niggie langsaan ons het nou n “ding” aan die gang, so ek sale seker meer van my seun sien!!
To a large extent, one needs to break the clique at the Bulls, where Frans Ludeke is deeply engrossed with Victor, Fourie du Preez, Bakkies, Spies & Wynand, and vice versa.
This unhealthy player-power and favouritism thing simply means these players relax too much in stead of fighting for their starting berths from week to week.
Same applies to Snorrie with John Smit and Vic and the favourites there… the same Bokke who are now off form….
We, as Bulls supporters, demand more… and I’m sure that all of us combined demand more of the Bokke…. no resting on your laurels, fight for your place in the Bokke starting 15 and squad.
Maybe some timely exclusions or non-selections by firstly Frans Ludeke and thereafter Snorrie, will wake these suckers up.
One sees the hunger clearly in a guy like Bismarck du Plessis…. why… because he knows he has to do an amazing feat to lift John Smit, die witbroodjie, from Snorrie’s automatic inclusion at hooker in the run-on team.
So you can go on…. look how hard Juan de Jongh tries, in order to get above Jean de Villiers in the pecking order…. other examples abound… Danie Rossouw, Andries Bekker, Deon Fourie, a host of scrummies, Coenie Oosthuizen….
That’s the hunger EVERY Springbok should have in this World Cup Year…
Compare that to Sonny Bill Williams & Robbie Freuan’s form compared to the incumbants of Ma’a Nonu and Conrad Smith, how they have staked their claims, the difference being that they know well that Graham Henry won’t shy away from picking the actual in-form players.
Look at how out of his skin Adam Thompson is playing at the Highlanders…. he is desperately trying to get into the All Blacks team or squad.
One simply does not see the same amount of complacency amongst the New Zealand player ranks.
Drop Victor cold, Bakkies too… Spies, Habana, John Smit, Fourie du Preez, Wynand Olivier, with a clear message…. show your worth and hunger first before re-selection.
Snorrie is part of the problem, he should have been on the phone to Victor, John Smit and these lard-asses in Week 2 already of Super Rugby, saying to them that they are busy playing themselves out of Bok contention!
Time for diplomacy and pussy-footing around players is a thing of the past, or at least should be….. and the right noises or lack thereof from Ludeke, Alistair Coetzee & Snorrie shows a spinelessness which is hugely troubling!
@ grootblousmile:
GBS….ek stem.
Siw ouens moet n skok kry…..bvb as ons Vermeulen sppel in n Bok trui dit gaan ons penalties kos, Pierre is die beter man….as hy in vorm is. Blindside moet ou Alberts wees….as Juan dit tergu maak, hy sallie reg wees nie vir di WB.
My tik is uiters k*k vandag….ek vra verskoning….die komper het geskuif toe ek hom gemoer het.
“Snorrie is part of the problem, he should have been on the phone to Victor, John Smit and these lard-asses in Week 2 already of Super Rugby, saying to them that they are busy playing themselves out of Bok contention”
Sorry but i dont agree.
Maybe Snorrie as you called him is not at all worried about the poor form NOW. OK forget this statement, rather answer me this. Can a Springbok player play all the way through the Super 15 in peak condition and keep it up till the WC play offs?
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