For the last 7 months I have not been very active on Rugby Talk so I thought I after all this time I would frustrate you all with this article.
In my opinion SA rugby is currently not in the strongest position it can be, and most of it comes down to management and selection policies. The fact is that we do have the talent, but due to loyalties and incompetence by management things do not look promising for 2011.
Why you may ask do I feel this way. Well there are a number of issues that I will touch on and hopefully this will enlighten you as to where we stand.
Let us start with the coaching staff. PDV has had a number of opportunities to change the assistant coaches and has declined to do so. At one point he felt he did not get the respect and authority he deserved and was going to make the necessary changes early in 2010. What happened behind closed doors is anybody’s guess, but Dick Muir and Gary Gold somehow convinced PDV that they should stay. In the end the only person gotten rid of was OS du Randt, widely regarded as one of the best loose head props in world rugby. Add to that the fact that he has 2 world cup medals and also vast experience, it makes little sense.
Now on the assumption that PDV’s main task is to be a man manager and apparently according to the players, well respected ( I still want to see a Springbok who loves playing say otherwise).
Let us then discuss the game plan. Now I for one, believe that the All Black way of playing has it’s place, but is not the Alpha and Omega. There needs to be a balance and the ability for any team to adapt to match situations.
Will New Zealand play risky open rugby when down by 10 points and in their red zone against a top team? No, certainly not! They will play territory first, keep the ball close and only when the situation allows, play open rugby.
South Africa on the other hand has been playing Bulls brand rugby for some time now, and refuses to vary their play. The problem with this is the old guard. They do not seem to have the ability to change their game, even when under pressure. It could also be that the old guard are just too slow to adapt and be effective.
I think back to the days when Nick Mallet coached the Boks to their 17 wins in succession, and the type of play and class of players they used during that time.
During this period the Springboks scored 91 tries averaging 5.4 tries per match and only conceding 21 tries, an average of 1.3 tries per match. This proves to me that we can play exciting rugby, but choose not too. What are they afraid of? If you ask me PDV has no idea and therefor simply sticks with something that worked in 2007 RWC.
If I had to look at the players I would currently select for the RWC, my team would be vastly different from his. And I wouldn’t mind even if my team was less experienced and lost, because I would be building towards the future.
The players that would not come near my squad are, John Smit, CJ v d Linde, BJ Botha, Bakkies Botha, Pierre Spies, on current form Fourie du Preez, Wynand Olivier, Jean de Villiers, Bryan Habana, Adie Jacobs. Unless they start showing some form, creativity and some hunger, they should not even be considered. Yes they are all quality players, but the one thing that is an absolute must is hunger and then adaptability.
Lastly there are some players that have shown their abilities and hunger over the last few years. Willem Alberts, Jano Vermaak, Peter Grant, Jaque Fourie, Lwazi Mvovo, Juan du Jongh, Andries Bekker, Duane Vermeulen, Bismarck du Plessis…. these guys should be there.
Well folks, this is my opinion what do you think?
I will say it again:
You cannot win the 2011 WC with a 2007 team and game plan.
We do not have the coach to understand this and act on it.
Yes, we need experience as well as young talent, but NZ have taken game skills at pace to a new level and we have stagnated.
It is not a simple comparison between expansive, ball in hand rugby and playing for territory in a knock out competition, because NZ can play both styles in 80 minutes when it is required.
If we go to the WC without understanding the demands of the 2011 game and with old fashioned ideas and hopelessly outdated players who no longer have skills to match NZ we are finished.
Thanks for the Article, Biltonge…
I you see this and I see this and Tight head sees this… just why don’t or can’t Snorre and SA Rugby see it?
Very interesting stats you bring up for Nick Mallett… and now we’re stuck with the “Head Clown” and his cohorts!
I simply do not see the Bokke move past the Semi’s in the World Cup.
This evening is the Varsity Cup Final…. at least here we WILL see a SA side win….
@ grootblousmile:
I think the reason why they don’t “see” it is because everyone of them is in it for themselves. Rugby is not the main focus, but rather their careers.
4@ biltongbek:
Ja swaer!
CHARL SCHWARTZEL. BRILLIANT. Another South African wins the Masters. Awesome. Feel so proud this morning.
Just had to put post that here. Now will read the rugby thread.
We might not even get further than our pool games. That how bleak it looks. Boks last year and the tour to NH. We played old out of date rugby back then. Said so on this blog the reason we lost just about all our games. We don’t have the coaches to be honest. Far to late to change now so my feeling we will just have to be thinking of 2015.
We played Bulls rugby last year cause they were successful, but it never worked with the Boks. We will not win much with that style to be honest. We need plenty of the younger rugby players coming through to get selected. BUT don’t think that will happen either. Bekker is playing far better than Victor right now as well.
Anyhow this S15 is still a long way to go. Bulls have to adapt and move with the times. In that team will be many of our Boks cause just can’t see PdV not select others.
I have a horror feeling we could be out before the quarters. We just don’t have the right coaches and PdV should have got rid of Gold and Muir. Now hope that they get someone in to help them cause none of them have a clue really. Just have no hope for our Boks in the wc. I WANT them to win it, but it looks almost impossible at this stage.
Look at the Saders team. They are way, way ahead of any team in SuperRugby. Though Blues did beat them, then that is a kiwi team. Sharks had their chances and played superb against them in the 2nd half at Twickers. That is the rugby we need to concentrate on. Need to keep MORE possession. McLooks article summed it up very well.
I just have a dreadful feel about this wc much like I had for 2003. Hope I am wrong.
@ Puma:Meant – Just can’t see PdV select others.
Wat SA rugby nog verder aftrek, is die huidige formaat van die super 15. Ek het dit reeds Saterdag genoem, hier is dit weer:
Die provinsialisme is reeds sterk en gesond genoeg in die CB en dit is goed so. Met die vorige jare se superrugby het SA spanne mekaar ondersteun, dit het bv veroorsaak dat 2 SA spanne in 2007 en 2010 in die finaal speel. Maar wat nou, nou moet jy skree teen ander SA spanne, sodat jou eie span nr.1 op die log kan eindig.
Plumtree het dit ook genoem saterdag, is in vandag se koerant: hy soos die Stormers en die Sharks het die Saders teen die Bulle ondersteun. Ek neem hul nie kwalik nie, want die formaat vereis dit van jou om die oorsese spanne te ondersteun, nie jou eie spanne nie.
So Saterdag ondersteun die hele SA (behalwe Pta) die Reds teen die Bulle. So neuk ons mekaar op.
Dit dwing ‘n mens dan om die res van die seisoen nog steeds jou eie span te ondersteun, en enige ander oorsese span, ook om die trofee te wen.
Jammer, maar kan nie anders nie.
“I think back to the days when Nick Mallet coached the Boks to their 17 wins in succession, and the type of play and class of players they used during that time.
During this period the Springboks scored 91 tries averaging 5.4 tries per match and only conceding 21 tries, an average of 1.3 tries per match. This proves to me that we can play exciting rugby, but choose not too”
Eishhhh a good article but not good use of the stats.
First Mallet coached us to 16 of those 17 wins, Carel du Plessis won his last game as Bok coach 61-22 with 8 tries to 3 against Australia.
Stats can be read the way you like it so let me just point out that we played Scotland 2 times and scored 15-2 tries against them. Wales 2 times and scored 18-2 against them. Italy 1 time with a 9-3 try count and also France was poor in those years and the conceded 12-4 tries. That accounts for 54 of the tries. I can not remember exactly but i think they send b and c class players on tour to SA.
The 4 games we won against NZ and AUS was more in line with how SA played all the years. Against NZ we scored 5-2 in the 2 games and against AUS we scored 3-2.
I will take some time and study the performances of all SA coaches from Mallet to Peter in games against our main rivals the AB and AUS teams.
@ superBul:
True stats can be manipulated, but when was the last time we annailated teams with such ruthlessness?
10@ superBul:
Fark, what I would’nt give for a 5 – 2 try ratio against New Zealand now! Snorrie would give his left ball, no make it both balls, to have that try ratio….
In fact, reducing the Tests to 16 (from 17) makes the try count of 91 tries even more impressive!
@ grootblousmile:
sir the 8 by Carels team must be subtracted too
Divvie blew his good stats a bit last year , he conceded 11 -3 against the AB last year , before that he was almost equal to them. But that does not mean anything because he is judged overall.
13@ superBul:
Even so, it roughly means we scored 83 tries, of which 29 was against the World’s top rugby Nations, with an impressive DOUBLE the amount of tries compared to that of NZ and Ossie combined.
Give us Snorrie’s ratio against them seperately and / or combined…. to compare apples with apples.
@ superBul:
France wasn’t that bad, the first game we only won 36-32
14@ superBul:
Mmmmm 5 – 2 against a negative ratio…. apples with apples…
NM – vs NZ p7, w4, l3 Tries for and against 14-13
HV – vs NZ p2, w0, l2 Tries for and against 0-2
RS – vs NZ p5, w0, l5 Tries for and against 6-20
JW – vs NZ p9, w3, l6 Tries for and against 21-22
PV – vs NZ p9, w4, l5 Tries for and against 11-20
NM – vs AU p8, w3, l5 Tries for and against 7-14
HV – vs AU p2, w1, l1 Tries for and against 2-1
RS – vs AU p4, w2, l2 Tries for and against 11-12
JW – vs AU p11 w6, l5 Tries for and against 19-30
PV – vs AU p9, w4, l5 Tries for and against 25-24
Sien mens kan met stats toor, maar dit is tog feite.
NM – vs NZ p7, w4, l3 Tries for and against 14-13 – Ratio 2-1.85
NM – vs AU p8, w3, l5 Tries for and against 7-14 – Ratio 0.87-1.75
JW – vs NZ p9, w3, l6 Tries for and against 21-22 – Ratio 2.33-2.44
JW – vs AU p11 w6, l5 Tries for and against 19-30 Ratio 1.64-2.73
PV – vs NZ p9, w4, l5 Tries for and against 11-20 Ratio 1.22-2.22
PV – vs AU p9, w4, l5 Tries for and against 25-24 Ratio 2.77-2.66
NM vs Both SANZAR teams – tries 21-27 , 1.57 vs 1.8
JW vs Both SANZAR teams – Tries 39-52 , 1.95 vs 2.6
PV vs Both SANZAR teams – tries 36-44 , 2-2.44
@ superBul:
Jy is heeltmal reg, maar die punt van die artikel gaan nie oor die stats nie, dit gaan oor die feit dat ons “creative” rugby gespeel het, wanneer laas het ons spanne gemoor wanneer ons beter as hulle was?
Jy kan nie stry dat ons sedert 2007 “boring” rugby speel nie. In die verlede het ons nooit verwag om te verllor teen spanne soos Wales, Ierland of Scotland nie, nou raak dit al hoe meer ooglopend dat ons bekommerd is wanneer ons teen hulle speel.
@ superBul:
My interpretasie
Mallet was goed teen AB’s maar swak teen Aus. Hy druk ook minste driee teen SANZAR spanne gekombineerd, 1.57
Jake wen wel meer teen Aus maar kyk die driee ratio teen AUS, natuurlik verwrong daai 49-0 die hele ding.
Peter se span kan jy glo druk die meeste driee, 2 per wedstryd en staan ook minder af as Jake 2.44 teen Jake se 2.6
Gaan jy na hoeveelheid wenne is dit
NM – 7 , 44.67%
JW – 9 ‘ 45%
PV – 8 , 44.4%
bykans geen vrskil nie, so my siening is die driee is baie laer as jy teen ons aartsvyande speel.
@ biltongbek:
Ek stem ook vir mooier rugby maar moet dit nie van PdeV vra as niemand anders dit kon regkry om ons speel kultuur te verander nie. Soos McLook in sy artikel gese het word ons van kleins af vekeerd geleer op skool. Hy noem daar dat hy die afrigting op sy o/11 spannetjie toepas om in spasies te hardloop.
Ek wed jou dat ons o/11 skool afrigters dit nie doen nie. Ek sal jou se hulle leer hulle om sterker te word en om die ander outjie om te hardloop. So as ons wil verander goed so maar verwag so rukkie geen sukses nie en eers baie pak slae. Oornag sal dit nie gebeur nie.
Net so laaste enetjie oor stats, daai groot tellings wat teen Uruguay en Italia aangeteken is het eintlik verdoesel hoe treurig JW se stats eintlik was.
@ superBul:
Jy is reg oor die fokus van ons afrigters oor groter sterker en hardloop bo-oor die opponent, maar die vraag is, is daar geen spelers wat van nature die visie en talent het nie?
Ek sluk baie swaar daaraan as dit wel so is. Kyk na Lambie en Aplon as net twee voorbeelde, beide het goeie voetwerk en mik vir de gaping. Maar ons moet dan ook erken, dat ons bal draers nie met die doel voor oe speel om n’ ondersteunende speler in die gaping te sit nie.
Puma go read this http://www.sport24.co.za/Golf/Masters/Glowing-US-praise-for-Charl-20110411
biltongbek wrote:
hulle is daar maar hulle MOET strukture bou onthou, al le die doellyn gapend oop voor hom :LOL:
Kyk na Shadow se drie vroeg in die seisoen, hy word nou skoon uit die span gegooi omdat hy so shine gevang het. Nee ek dink daar is baie wat kan, baie wat flinkvoetig is , maar hulle word dood gecoach.
@ grootblousmile:
If you listen to his voice….I think he has already given both nuts.
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