Another year gone by, another coach on the brink of extinction, so what’s new in South African Rugby? Well for one, the media conferences are infinitely more entertaining, instead of the old “Judge me at the World Cup” we haven’t got the foggiest idea what we will hear whenever a press conference is convened now. I love the anticipation.
One thing we don’t have at the moment are some arrogant Irish…, yes we have the Scots, but they’re not talking much are they? They know results like those are handed to them once a decade, and they don’t want to jinx that…
What has South African Rugby achieved in the past season? Not much really…the same players played just about every game, there was talk of fatigue, of old players having to move on, and once again we were over-shadowed by the spectacle that is All Black Rugby.
So, in retrospect, everything went just about exactly the way it went in 2006, before the 2007 World Cup, even looking at the overall results, there’s not much to choose between Snorre and White.
2006 White: Played 12, Won 5, Lost 7 … Success Ratio: 41%
2010 PDivvy: Played 14, Won 8, Lost 6… Success Ratio: 57%
Now, should you find a person, who knew nothing about rugby, and you asked them, who they would appoint to lead SA to RWC’11, surely they’d go with the guy with the best success ratio… but that would be wrong because…well because…interesting isn’t it? That when thinking about the whole thing, I am saying thinking about it, without taking White’s World Cup into consideration, think pre-2007, all we had to go on was White’s insistence that he be judged at the World Cup.
This after a 49-0 whitewash against Australia, after a series of humiliating defeats against Ireland, and practically everyone else when away from home.
White went to the 2007 World Cup with a team that few people honestly agreed with, some of his inclusions, read Bob Skinstad, Frans Steyn at centre and even Danie Rossouw at No. 8, was questioned, and eyebrows were raised. Yet after the whole thing, he was hailed as a tactical genius, even though we nearly went down to Fiji and Tonga, and made a meal of the game against the USA.
Now I am sorry, I was there in 2006, and even when things went well in 2005, no-one gave White a chance in hell. You would be hard-pressed to find a single complimentary thing said about the guy before his World Cup victory, he was lambasted, castrated and openly ridiculed, and this had nothing to do with his comb-over.
Today we are in the same boat, we were practically bowled over in the tri-nations, and had a shocker against Scotland, this barely a year after one of our most comprehensive tri-nations victories ever, a series where WE bettered the All Blacks on three occasions, where we beat the British and Irish Lions the first time in decades, where we won in Dunedin for the first time in a century.
What the hell gives us the idea that White, or for that matter, anyone else can do a better job in less than 12 months, with only a handful of tests remaining? Are we seriously contemplating this?
De Villiers has shown he has the team’s loyalty, he has shown that he can win the big games. He has won some pretty amazingly big games, and to say that he did it with White’s team is simply ridiculous, because in saying it, one is actually saying that a coach shouldn’t pick his country’s best players, because another coach has gone and done it before him.
I don’t know if we will win the World Cup, I am guessing we have a better than even chance of retaining it, we have shown, (or rather PDivvy and his team has) that we CAN win in New Zealand. Based on the talent available, and the mere weight the Springbok emblem carries, all SAFFA supporters, have reason to be a little more optimistic than say Ireland, Australia, England or France…
However, I am certain, that if we change the whole coaching setup now, we will most definitely NOT have a shot in hell. By all means get rid of Muir, he might have been a great player, but he is a useless coach. Bring in some new assistants, up the ante, but let’s not go wholesale.
Being a Springbok supporter has to be like marriage, you’re either in, or out, for better or for worse. I support the Bokke, I could never turn my back on the green and gold, in fact, now that they face their ‘Watergate’, none of us should.
I hated Jake White, even today I can’t stand the man. I read his autobiography and I am amazed at the man’s arrogance. OK, his love-interest with Mark Keohane (Over now is it?) also didn’t help. Both of them are self-serving pricks…I might not like PDivvy, but at least he doesn’t have an agenda…if he did, he would probably have coughed it up at one or the other press conference.
Good article, except you forgot to mention the reason why White won the WC… Eddie Jones. Jeez, the guy turned our backline around! And it was all that was needed in the end. Before him we could only score intercept tries.
I also totally agree on the statement regarding Muir. The guy was probably one of our greatest and by far underrated centres ever. But he stinks as a backline coach. What has he ever accomplished? Even at the Sharks? We have to accept Div will not go, but for heaven’s sake, get rid of Muir!
Saint,
You took the words right out of my mouth! JW was an arrogant moron, and it irritates me that he will be remembered as a WC winning coach. Keohane was one of the ones who wanted his head in 2006 and then did a complete turnaround next year.
Remember JW’s statement about his sons being fetchers? (forget Smith, McCaw, Waugh, Back, Pocock, etc). And that there’s no place for small Boks? Which means Brussouw and Aplon would never have featured if he was coach.
Still think we should try to rope in Carel Doep with a defence coach(!), or Pieter Rossouw, to replace Muir.
Flok maar jy is vandag positief Saint…. het die engeltjies in jou Rice Crispies gepiepie of iets?
I don’t understand the absolute obsession with comparing Snorrie to White the whole time…
Compare apples with apples, current coaches with current coaches, current results with current results, current game plans & structures with current game structures…. then look at the probabilities.
Look at the Springbok road ahead in the World Cup 2011, where the Springboks will meet the All Blacks in the one semi (in all likelyhood)…. and don’t bank on the All Blacks choking.
The Springboks will have to be at their supreme best, with an all round 15-man performance… or make that a 22-man performance on the day.
The fact is that the All Blacks and the Wallabies are ahead of the Springboks in their preparation for next year… if we had to play them now, the smart money would be heavily on New Zealand.
My hassle or fight is not a simple and wayward choice between Snorrie and Jake the Snake, it is about daily seeing dumb decisions and choices committed by the current coach and his cohorts, right in front of our faces, and his lack of simple intelligence to handle the media better. It is about the absolute lack of attack in a Bokke backline, it’s about woeful defence, it’s about not doing what should be done.
Forget about White, the high school teacher!
Focus on what and where the Springboks could have been under an astute and intelligent coach, under assistants who know what they are doing.
… that is where we should have been, if all things had been equal.
Skryf maar solank ‘n wêreldbeker af….
@ The Saint:
You imply that White had an agenda. If so what was / is it?
wonner wanner die s15 begin
@ Loosehead:
My reasoning actually centred around Mr. Keohane, as well, I thought that talks of new stint as official Springbok communications manager was on the cards, imagine the benefits of something like that in the light of his involvement with SA Rugby Magazine and KEO and also some other stuff… But to be honest, everything may be only a figment of my totally biased imagination…
I was actually trying to say that apart from the Springboks, PDivvy had nothing else on the side, in other words, FAIL to him means MAJOR F*UP
6@ smallies72:
18 Februarie
@ gbs flip dis te lank moet ma dronk bly tot dan…
9@ smallies72:
Ja, dis nog vêr…, so 70 dae of so in die verskiet… wat omtrent gelyk is aan 1 vyfde van ‘n jaar…
Dis moer lank…. hehehe
The abandoned blueprint
Posted by Admin – 06/12/10 at 08:12 am under Columnists
Much has been debated this week about our approach to winning. Peter seems intent on using the 2007/2009 blueprint in favor of his own 2008 concoction.
Brendon Shields
Some have suggested that the Springboks abandoned the 2008 project prematurely and that a few tweaks here and there could have resulted in the Springboks paying a more expansive game today.
The Boks for example scored 13 tries in that year’s Tri Nations. Staggeringly 12 of those tries were scored by a backline player, and only a solitary Bekker try against Australia in the 53-8 demolition job at Ellis Park for the fatties. Great.
Problem is (thanks Dawie) we came last. So perhaps it is true of Springbok rugby – we do not perform well when we play a game plan whereby we rely on our backs to score tries?
After painful deliberation on the author’s part he realized one key missing component in the 2008 armor. Percy Montgomery did not play. Instead we had Conrad Jantjies take his place with Butch James slotting in the pivot position. What does this matter I hear you ask?
Well quite simply a 92% kicker made way for a 70% kicker. The results (according to IRB statistics) are shocking.
Our penalty success that year? 61% (OZ 70%, NZ 75%)
Our conversion rate of tries scored? 54% (OZ 79%, NZ 75%)
Our overall success rate? 58% (OZ 75%, NZ75%)
Liewe bliksem I hear you say. Too right.
Imagine we had one Morne Steyn, yes he with the 98% success rate in 2010, selected for the Boks in 2008? Maybe just maybe those near losses would have been wins? We lost 19-8 to New Zealand and 16-9 to Australia 2 weeks later.
I know most of you are happy with a win regardless of how it is achieved. However, I also know that most of you deep down would prefer it if the Springboks can dominate teams not only with our pack, but also with an expansive attacking backline.
Is it possible that we abandoned this game plan for the wrong reasons? Could a Morne Steyn have meant all the difference?
a Post from Ruggaworld
Despite the genuine concerns raised about the poor performances of the Springboks and the supposedly even poorer performances from the coach and his assistants, 2010 has given us a lot of reasons to feel confident about the Springboks’ chances in next year’s World Cup.
Here are a few of the things that will stand us in good stead in 2011:
• In spite of his many public relations mistakes and tactless handling of sensitive matters around the team, coach Peter de Villiers has managed to build an impressive squad of players from which to select his World Cup squad. He has at his disposal a mixture of youth and experience that will enable him to send perhaps the best Springboks squad ever to the 2011 tournament. He has created opportunities for young players to gain experience on the field against some of the players and teams they will encounter at the World Cup which will prove invaluable for these players.
• The dominance of South African teams of the Super 14 instilled a lot of broad-based confidence among the top rugby players in South Africa, in their ability to beat the best the world can offer. The fact that a South African team has won the Super 14 two years in row is an indication of how the tide has swung in favour of South Africa. We always knew we had the talent, but never really believed we could beat the New Zealand teams. The recent success (Springboks 2009 Tri-Nations victory and the Bulls’ Super 14 dominance) is a result of a mental transformation among South African teams which they will carry with them to the World Cup next year.
• The emergence of strong contenders, until recently considered to be out of contention for World Cup selection, has sent the all important message to many senior players that their positions are not secure. They will have to jack up their performance and focus during the 2011 Super 15 to remain in contention for the World Cup. Players like Willem Alberts and Jean Deysel has become serious challengers given the shift in the Springboks’ game plan suggested by De Villiers after the Twickenham Test against England. Strong performances by Patrick Lambie and Lwazi Mvovo in next year’s Super 15 will make it very difficult for De Villiers and his selectors to ignore them. Add to this the return of Heinrich Brussouw, Danie Rossouw, Jaque Fourie and Fourie du Preez and the competition for World Cup spots is bound to hit fever pitch during the Super 15.
• Finally, the diffusion of the speculation about the future of the Springbok coach and the public notice (from De Villiers and Matfield after the England Test) about the Springboks’ intended game strategy for the 2011 World Cup, will have had a calming effect on the squad and would have ended any speculation about who is in charge of the Springboks. This will hopefully allow the coach and his players to focus on the World Cup and how to win it.
So when De Villiers says that 2010 has been one of his best years ever, I hope that he was alluding to the clearer focus on and the alignment to a game strategy reached at the end of the recent tour and not to his and his team’s on-field performances.
Nevertheless, while De Villiers has articulated a shift towards a more conservative, direct game plan, what he says in public is not necessarily how he plans to implement it. I am sure that this is another of those occasions.
Gary Boshoff is a former SARU player and current Afrikaans rugby commentator on SuperSport.
If EVERYONE is fit, who would be your Bok squad for the 2011 World Cup… a bit early, with many things that can still happen during the S15, but lets see…
15: Frans Steyn, Kichner/Lambie/C.Jantjies
14: JP, Gio Aplon
13: Jaques Fourie, Juan de Jongh
12: Jean De Villiers, Meisiekind
11: Habana, Mvovo
10: Morne Steyn, Elton Jantjies/Pat Lambie
9: Fourie du Preez
8: Pierre Spies, Willem Alberts
7: Juan Smith, Wikus van Heerden ???
6: Schalk Burger, Heinrich Brussouw
5: Victor Matfield, Andries Bekker
4: Bakkies Botha, anton van Zyl
3: Jannie Du Plessies, Gurthro Steenkamp
2: John Smit (C), Bismarck du Plessies
1: Beast Mtwarira, CJ van der Linde
@ Greenpoint-Gunner:
15: Kirchner/Pat Lambie
14: JP, Gio Aplon
13: Jaques Fourie, Juan de Jongh
12: Jean De Villiers, Meisiekind
11: Habana, Mvovo
10: Morne Steyn,
9: Fourie du Preez/Ruan Pienaar/ Francios Hougaart
8: Pierre Spies, Willem Alberts
7: Juan Smith, Dewald Potgieter/Danie Rousouw
6: Schalk Burger, Heinrich Brussouw
5: Victor Matfield, Andries Bekker
4: Bakkies Botha, Flippie vd Merwe
3: Jannie Du Plessies,
2: John Smit (C), Bismarck du Plessies
1: Beast Mtwarira, Gurthro Steenkamp
grootblousmile wrote:
I think it is fair to compare. remember both will be judged after the WC. Both followed a unpopular plan. Both had the same anus horribulus in the year before the WC.
@ superBul:
And Peter do have a game plan. The Bulls game plan, mostly. And he is learning slowly but surely. The biggest lesson this year is that you must play a plan with the right players, the type that can execute that plan.
And you and i know that your 8,9,10,12 combination is so crucial. Anyone willing to check the combinations used in this 4 positions in 2010? Some homework for all. 😆
First 4 games it was
Joe v Niekerk
E Januarie
R Pienaar
J de Jongh
Spies
Januarie
Morne Steyn
WO
Spies
Januarie
Morne Steyn
Butch James
Spies
Januarie
Morne
Juan de Jongh
16@ superBul:
Snorrie DOES’NT have a game plan… and because he does’nt he borrows the Bulls game plan, well part of it anyway…
… or is it Vic & Bakkies & Spies and lately Stegmann & Hougie, coupled with Morné Steyn who’s just implimented the Bulls game plan, because there is no game plan coming from the coach?
He’s not learning.. what has he learnt, bar maybe that Alberts and possibly Mvovo are ready for the big stage?
He’s learnt to lose to the big rugby Nations this year, that he has learnt well, he has learnt that his jobbie is safe under any circumstances, that he knows perfectly well!
15@ superBul:
Comparing Snorman to White reflects the hope you all cling to so desperately… and blind loyalty…. that’s all.
It is not based on present circumstances or based on logic for next year… it is based on hope that Snorrie’s squad follows the same miracle path as that of Jake the Snake.
There are differences though, the biggest of which is that this time we WILL MEET the All Blacks, at home!
vir die wereld beker het ons die volgende spelers nodig n sterk fiesiese pak voorspelers n goeie scrummie n losskakel wat 8uit 10 skoppe oor skop en n agterlyn wat die rook uit hulle openente uit kan tackle dus soek ons die volgende span beast bissie jannie vic bakkies brussow juan spies/alberts fdp morne jean/fransie mossie/meisiekind mvovo aplon fransie/sane/daniller dis al net dit
@ grootblousmile:
GBS jy klou nou aan die deuntjie tot vervelens toe dat Peter nie n game plan het nie, kom nou ou vriend jy glo tog nie jouself nie. As hy nie a game plan het nie dan het Jake ook nie een gehad nie. Ek het op voldys gaan soek wat jy te se gehad het in die WB tyd 2007 en kan jy glo al jou en bykans al my komments is missing. Pietman is nog daar gelos.
Praat later oor die storie , gou weer werk toe.
20@ superBul:
Nee mater, jy is die ene wat vir lewe en dood aan Snorrie klou… om eerlik te wees, ek verstaan nie jou misplaaste lojaliteit nie, gladnie.
Jake se game plan was gebasseer op 1 primêre aspek… verdediging.. en ‘n sterk pak voorries.
Daarbenewens het hy gestaan en val by duidelik geidentifiseerde groep spelers.
Maar, wat maak Jake tog nou saak, dis Snorrie en sy groep wat die wêreldbeker moet gaan veg.
Mynsinsiens val ons uit by die semi…. dis hoe ek voel… en ek voel sterk daaroor.
Snorrie het nie daai sterk verdedigingsetiek by sy groep gehandhaaf nie, kyk hoe maklik het ons teen die Wallabies en All Blacks drieë gelek hierdie jaar… verstommend maklik man.
Die ou Snormoer en ou Muir is swak vir die Bokke man.. en dis ‘n skande!
20@ superBul:
O, en ek gee mossie ‘n moer om of my Comments op Voldy verwyder is nie… flok hulle man, simpel klomp blikslaers daai.
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