BJ Botha, Frans Steyn, Jean de Villiers, Butch James, Joe van Niekerk, Shaun Sowerby, Marius Joubert, Luke Watson, Daan Human, Faan Rautenbach, Brent Russel, Neil de Kock, Michael Claasens, CJ van der Linde, Robbie Diack, Ross Skeate, Gcobani Bobo, Schalk Brits, Ernst Joubert, Marco Wentzel, Jacques Cronje and countless other lesser known players.
Week in and week out we have to hear the constant muttering and moaning of SA Rugby fans, “Oh if only this and this player came back, oh what are we going to do now that this player is playing overseas? Why can’t Peter de Villiers just select the overseas guys? All our talent is playing overseas because of quotas. “
Bullshit…say I!!!
Around 352 professional rugby players ply their trade on a weekly basis Super 14 and Vodacom Cup action for South Africa, this excludes the various injured players watching from the sidelines, the players not in the match 22, the age-group players and even the Varsity Cup players.
Think about this, only considering players in the match 22’s, it is approximately (read well, APPROXIMATELY):
62 Props,
32 Hookers,
48 Locks,
56 Looseforwards,
24 Scrumhalves,
22 Flyhalves,
40 Centres
68 Outside Backs.
Are we seriously saying, that nowhere in the whole country, are we able to identify and develop a youngster, to grow into a position of influence on the field? Within an array of 62 front-rowers, we do not have the ability to develop even one into an international star? Are we actually trying? Or are we only trying to take the easy way out?
To even consider using overseas based players is an insult to every registered rugby player in South Africa, from school level up. There is absolutely no position in which we do not have a better local player than an overseas based one, (Inside Centre might be the exception, but not for long).
SARU needs to have a look at their structures, and whether they are doing enough to develop existing talent. The Scrum Factory is step in the right direction, but why not go even further?
Establish a National High Performance Rugby Academy. Invite at least 60 of the most promising talents from around SA to join the Academy under the tutorship of a number of professional coaches and conditioning experts appointed by SARU. Get them to hone raw talent into actual rugby players, get them into the mindset of the life of a professional rugby player.
Now, introduce a drafting system, whereby each franchise has the opportunity to approach these players and offer them junior contracts with the union. Obviously a transfer fee will be paid to the Academy, which will be one way of funding it. The junior contracts are to be equal in size, in other words, a financially powerful union, will pay the same as a smaller one, and each union can only approach a set number of players.
In this way you can ensure that talent is divided equally amongst the franchises, and that all franchises are benefitting and have an opportunity, to develop their sides. As this will be a South African initiative, a number of strong franchises is in the interest of SA Rugby as a whole.
Once a year, make available a transfer window, where unions get the opportunity to approach a number these junior players from each other’s unions, for senior contracts. However, here is the catch, a union cannot merely buy a player to get him off the market and add to its depth. A buy should coincide with actual game time in the senior set-up, as per contractual arrangement, and not just hanging around with the juniors waiting for injuries to make the step up.
It might be a pie in the sky dream, but I believe a move like this, will ensure that rugby in SA stays fresh, and that talent isn’t slipping through the cracks unnecessarily.
So by all means, a player can play where he wants, for whom he wants, for as long as he wants, because South Africa will be developing their replacements, and returning would not be as easy as once thought.
#58.
Saint, and exactly who sacks the idiots at the Lions currently?
Or who can?
#61
You would probably know better than me, but isn’t it possible for SARU to intervene in a curatorship capacity? Who owns Lions Rugby?
Well it is the same as who can dissolve the president’s council in SA rugby…
The most powerful decision making body in SA rugby…
Wanna guess?
Only they can dissolve themselves.
There is no accountability in SA Rugby with our current structures.
And this cycle of being on top for one year, or 5, and in the dumps the next, will continue and our unions will never become self-sustaining businesses.
Which comes back to not being able to compete with Europe, which brings us back to the article on overseas based players and so many other issues.
It is a cycle that just continues to go round and round.
Face it, the Economic hub of SA is situated in Gauteng…. I do not think you would dispute that…
Well, unfortunately a Merge between the Bulls and Lions could lead to one thing only…. and that is domination in SA like you have never known before in rugby…. it involves so much power or potential power it envolves the availability, no the anexation of sponsors who caters for the majority of the population or potential supporter base…. it will be a giant who gobbles up rugby in SA…
Is that good for the other 4 Regions…. I doubt it….
But other ideas like the centralised draft is good for everybody…. and for that no merge is needed….
I say, leave the existing success achieved at the Bulls, Sharks, WP alone…. no mergers needed…. repair what is broken..
What is broken:
1. The Lions & The Cheetahs
2. No Eastern Cape Franchise
3. To many overseas based players
4. Too many quality fringe players at the Biggies (Bulls, Sharks, Stormers) compared to the desperate plight for depth at the Lions, Cheetahs, and ALL the smaller Currie Cup Franchises.
5. A weak SARU Structure
6. Not enough emphasis on develoment of players from all over
7. Too much politics in rugby
8. No centralised Draft
9. Too little professionalism at Franchise level
10. Not nearly enough Rugby Academies
11. No joint SA vision or style of play
12. Loss of rugbyplayers between School and Club and Provincial levels
Mmmmm, I think that has barely scratched the surface…..
#63
Surely with no spectators the Lions will later be forced to do something drastic?
GBS the only problem I have with your suggestion is that what is broken today, might be fixed tomorrow as history has proven – and what is working today, might be broken again tomorrow – again, history has proven this.
Problem is, the cycle is ongoing and we are experiencing the same thing, just entering different names in the different categories of fixed and broken.
As far as sponsorship goes, you know as much as I do that SA rugby is already controlled by two major sponsors only, Vodacom and SuperSport from a commercial point of view, and SAIL from an administrative point of view with a few smaller players inbetween.
So I dont see a problem there.
What this potentially could do, is open the door for other major sponsors like shipping or car companies in the Eastern Cape as but one example.
And a Super Gauteng region?
Mate I am licking my lips, I cannot wait for something like that because it will be the catalyst for all other regions to perhaps finally catch a wake-up.
Saint,
Whilst they are playing Super rugby mate, they will continue…
67@ Morne – There are always swings and roundabouts in life… and cycles…
The “merge” you envisage won’t cure that ailment…
All that one can indeed do is fix what is broken… but fixing certain things will ensure continued SA rugby dominance…. let my list those who will leave a long lasting legacy
1. The Establishment of Quality Rugby Academies
2. More Professional Rugby Administration… both Provincially and at SARU
3. Bridging the losses of players between School and Club and Provincial structures
4. Development of talent previously ignored
5. A centralised Draft
6. Provision of Facilities
7. Doing something about future losses of players overseas… whether it be by means of transfer fee structures or Privatisation or whatever
Short term fixes:
1. Fixing the Lions and Cheetahs
2. Constituting and properly enabling an Eastern Cape Franchise
You know, a wise man once told me something very important…. this is what he said…
“The majority of successful individuals and entities in history and living have ONE THING in common… they all have SHORT TERM, MEDUIM TERM and LONG TERM GOALS or OBJECTIVES
Now go do yourself the favour and measure yourself and the people around you on those GOALS, and you’ll come back a changed man”
Profound stuff!!
Similarly, break rugby down into those 3 Goals for improvement, and if achieved you’ll see a different sport emerging….
Those things you listed will 99% be sorted out with the suggestion made, and if done correctly, also fix your proposed short, medium and long term goals as it is business driven.
We have to make peace with the fact that certain unions will never reach the success or status of other unions in SA, they will have to fulfill the role of supporter unions to more major unions in each region, or in the case of the Eastern Cape, no major union.
But their presence, role and importance must not be underestimated for the greater good of rugby in South Africa.
Who knows, perhaps the Lions have moved beyond the brink of regaining their former glory, but in each of our regions, with the exception of the Eastern Cape, we have a traditionally strong union or dominant union – fact is however, those unions cannot survive without the other unions and given the footprint and reach they have, they are vital coggs in ensuring the survival of SA rugby and keeping rugby a major sport in SA.
Add academies, programmes and development, economical and social programmes these ‘franchise’ companies will be responsible for in all unions and regions, you have a more hands-on management infrastructure, better accountability, and an even spread of talent not to mention a more focussed talent identification and development programme.
70@ Morne – Let’s agree to disagree… you say merge the Bulls and Lions into a Super Structure, I say it’s the kakkest idea I’ve heard in a long time.
What we both agree on is that there are certain glaring shortcomings in the current setup, that change is needed… and I suppose in general you agree with the problem areas I listed… so we’re not that far apart except maybe in the methodology in achieving it…
I have to leave but I will leave you with this.
What is better?
Emerge the Lions in a central Super Infrastructure or lose the Lions to any Super structer looking at where they are now?
What purpose will a Lions union have to us if they become like the Valke where they can only afford to pay 5 players a salary and not play Super rugby at all?
What happens to their infrastructure, clubs, schools etc?
Kakkest idea?
Perhaps – I dont think so however.
Morne,merging the Bulls with the Lions wont work for the reasons that Gbs said. I think a better merger would be to merge The Lions with the Cheetahs,when they played as the Cats they made the Super semi’s 2 years in a row and they can still make use of alternating on using both Ellis Park and Bloemfontein depending on who they are playing in the Super 15 going forward.. It would be a better match than merging a crap team with one that plenty depth..
HOME ground advantage struck with a vengeance last weekend. All teams playing at home, except the hapless Lions, won decisive victories. Researchers have found that teams playing at home generally have more testosterone charging through their bodies than do their opponents. The home crowd is generally as charged up as the players. My guess, too, is that referees tend to react to all this physical and emotional energy by rewarding the home side in the penalty count.
My mate popped me an sms saying that Gary Gold has been reported on saying that the coaching of the side was left up to him and Muir and Snor does nothing,is this true or more pie in the sky journalism..
I hope he said that, then we will get rid of him soon, come Dick get another brainfart
Problem is even if he did they are probably tied into long term contracts worth millions.. Kind of like all the Liverpool supporters called for Rafa’s head..
Winston why dont they have performance clauses that are properly structured. DM should have been gone at the lions after his 10th loss, it does not work and i dare to say it never will. His way off talking does not fit the Lions.
winston @ 75
so THATS why the forwards are constantly in the backline, lol
anyway bru,
you believe that (the sms),
then you’ll believe anything!!
I could not agree more. Because all we are hearing is that there is a five year plan,results dont matter and its about how the play.. I say that utter bullshit,this is professional sport and results are the only thing that matters.. But the selection of some of these clowns in the first place boggles my brain..
Hi Ashley. Anything is possible in SA rugby,thats why I asked 🙂 At least at Bok level we have a backline..
Morne, for what its worth and as we discussed some time ago, you have my support on your regional franchise model.
This is where all you “experts have it all wrong. The Freestate has it’s own academy in Grey College and Kovsies. The palyers start at Grey are schooled in rugby, then move to Kovsies [where I was schooled in drinking] and then they are poached by the Bulls / WP / Sharks. Get the school structures right, then offer the players a Varsity / Technicon education, then let them become pro players.
Natal schools always have super players, but they are lost to the Sharks as they have no place to get an education after school. So they go elsewhere.
Loosehead…
You forgot to mention that first of all Grey poaches all these players from all over the country… 😆
Winston,
The only reason people are against it is that for some reason they believe they will lose their ‘identity’.
In honesty mate, the only identity they stand to lose is their Super rugby identity of which from an SA perspective stretches all of 4 years since we were shafted by the Antipodeans since the inception of the competition.
But even if we were to be pedantic, Super rugby identities in SA stretches over a little more than a decade.
The Bulls identity, as the Lions’ and any other union that people are so attached to, will still remain in competitions like the Currie Cup etc.
The only difference from what we have now, is that teams will be micro-managed (not SA Rugby and President’s Council managed as is currently the case) by its regional hub – and yes, represent their regional hub in the Super rugby competition.
The aim of the micro-management and regional hub is to strengthen and build all 14 unions in SA to become competitive, to unearth and nurture talent.
Why is it that the NZ version of the Currie Cup is strong across many of its 14 unions, but in SA our premier competition is fought primarily between 5 unions?
They dont lose their identity when playing Super 14, and every year we see how they unearth new talent from obscurity competing in the Super 14.
With our current system we have 9 unions who serve little to no purpose, we have 3 unions only competitive in Super rugby at any given time and two always stuck at the bottom fighting for the wooden spoon. In the Currie Cup we have 5 unions fight it out of 14. 11 of our 14 unions operate on the breadline or are bankrupt.
Our current system does not work – plain and simple.
It is great that the Bulls have won the Super rugby title 2 times in the last 3 years, and possibly this year again. But it serves little purpose to South African rugby if we look at the fact that the Cheetahs are no-where, the Sharks are struggling with depth, the Lions are an embarrassment and we have 300 odd players plying their trade overseas.
We need a new approach in SA rugby, and yes, we might be fooled with our current dominance in rugby but when the shit hits the fan in 2012 when we lose 60% of our current crop of stars (largely responsible for our current success at Super and Bok level) we will look back once again and ask where we went wrong…
That is a promise.
I ask again, what is better for Lions rugby, to emerge in a Super Gauteng franchise or lose their Super rugby status completely?
Same with the Eastern Cape?
What do the Bulls lose if this happens?
What do the Lions lose?
And what do both of them gain????
What is the difference referring to Bakkies Botha as a Bulls representing or playing for the Boks, and Bakkies Botha the Bulls player playing for the Gauteng Giants (or wtf ever)?
87@ Morne – The difference is remarkable…. In this Super Gauteng Franchise the Team will consist of the Bulls plus maybe Jano Vermaak, Michael Killian, Doppies Le Grange and Walter Venter…. who all would have to sit on the bench or just be in the broader squad with no game time.
These Players and the rest of the Players who totally miss out on Super Rugby amongst the Golden Lions, the Pumas, the Leopards and the Valke will have no motivation to stay with their Home Unions and would move away to the Sharks, Stormers, Cheetahs and Kings in a hope to play Super 14… effectively leaving the squads of 4 Unions (Golden Lions, Pumas, Leopards, Valke) bare and not competative… much like the Valke is at the moment.
That way the Lions will just become another Valke…. farkall happening…. well less than farkall…
You can find the blueprint for this recipy at the Valke….
Do you think Baywatch, Heinke v/d Merwe, Minnie, Burton Francis, Mjekevu, Rose and a few others will stay at the Lions…..
It will effectively constitute the death of Joburg Rugby….
GBS,
Some of the best Lions players this season are Pumas (Valke is associated with the Bulls as far as I recall).
If things carry on in its current trend no Lions players will be playing Super rugby as they will not have a franchise awarded to them but the Kings – which is in itself a fuckup as most will agree. And then the cycle starts all over again with the Kings and Cheetahs ending up at the bottom every year.
The aim with this (do not forget this) is to identify the top 150 players in the country, and through a central contracting and drafting system distribute player resources evenly with obviously the bulk of every regions player being local.
Currently, our Super rugby teams deliver a player base of 40 to 50 players in the category of decent international or top international quality – with the player numbers we have, this is criminal.
You can only do this if all unions, even the feeder (smaller) unions all benefit from the structures and setup of a properly managed regional franchise system not attached to any current union.
Morne forgett it friend , skryf dit op jou maag en vee dit af , met wat ookal.
Ons verklaar eerder n Republiek van die Blou Bulle voor ons alles wat ons hard voor gewerk het prysgee. As dit beteken die Bulle is die enigste span wat dan 10 Bokke lewer , so be it. We build our structures and we are reaping the rewards now.
Every other SA team try and copy our blue print. The Stormers are well on their way to reach it. They wont buy your idea now. Forget it.
The Sharks only had a poor start they have most of their plan in place, i can not see them buying your plan either. The Lions are in trouble they might listen.
we must accept that there will be different tiers in Rugby , a b and c divisions and the bigger unions must just keep paying them to develop players. create a system where they are repaid for the players they bring through.
Users Online
Total 53 users including 0 member, 53 guests, 0 bot online
Most users ever online were 3735, on 31 August 2022 @ 6:23 pm
No Counter as from 31 October 2009: 39,570,585 Page Impressions
_