The commentators in the Waratahs vs Brumbies game had difficulty to understand Steve Walsh last Saturday. Something was seriously wrong there. With my limited knowledge of scrums i could see he is grasping in the air.
I am not a scrum expert, in fact i know sweet blue nokkol compared some of the bloggers here. We have bloggers here who really know the inns and outs of scumming. I call on you to analyse the two articles below and the performance of Mr Steve Walsh.
The referee dimension and Analysing the Dark Art
Match reports in Australia hammered Steve Walsh
But in damp conditions that saw rain at the start, it was a dour affair with little flair. It was also marred by many controversial calls by referee Steve Walsh that prompted some bitter clashes between him and Brumbies captain Stephen Hoiles, whose right to question the calls fell on deaf ears.
The first half was noted more for the sparks between brumbies captain Stephen Hoiles and referee Steve Walsh than those between the two sides.
Hoiles’s first clash with Walsh came at the 16th minute when the referee ruled that the Brumbies captain – with ball in hand and across the 50m line – had been tackled. He clearly had not, but had broken through the NSW defence. Walsh penalised him for continuing his bust to the Waratahs 40m line.
A clearly aghast Hoiles didn’t hide his anger, telling Walsh his ruling was ”a rubbish call”.
Walsh responded by sending the Brumbies back another 10m to a mark well within Halangahu’s kicking range. His shot went over to leave them up 6-0.
Hoiles and Walsh exchanged verbals before the re-start, setting the scene for a volatile evening that was to get more fiery as Walsh blew his whistle.
Greg Growden about Steve Walsh
But it wasn’t entirely the players’ fault. This was a moment where the referee had to stand up and help make it a spectacle. Instead we got Steve Walsh, who on his day is as good as any referee going around, but on Saturday night appeared to have a brain snap and merrily whistled all the life out of the game.
Maybe he was inspired by the advertising around the ground which said that Ben Hur was being staged there in October, and subconsciously thought he had to be ”Bigger than ..”
Nonetheless, will referees ever learn that people attend football matches to see the players and not them? It was show-pony stuff. A succession of dreadful decisions against the Brumbies cost them at least eight points, while the scrums were a mess.
In the second half, as Walsh kept admonishing forwards and scrums took minutes to go nowhere, there were so many stoppages you had enough time to go on a sightseeing tour of Uluru and still be back in time for the final whistle.
So the moment was lost, and rugby administrators are again confronted by the dilemmas that come from too many matches being affected by pedestrian team tactics, coaching and refereeing.
Commentoators only comment on what they see.
One has to give the ref the benefit of doubt as they are the ones on top of the action. We onlt see from one angle the TV is showing.
Steve Walsh at the best of his ability has to take into account what he sees and what are the dynamics causing this. ie prop bent knee trying top drive inwards.
Dont forget a ref has top and side view during scrums we have side only!!
The ref is more likely to make a more correct decision than the ref sitting in the armchair/pub/commentators box.
That penalty against Hoiles was never the less laughable.
Super
No referee, no commentator, no-one except the six guys in the middle, has a clue about who is scrumming illegally. If I wanted to pull down a scrum, it would be dead simple, and no-one would even be able to have seen me move.
A loosehead will always scrum in, a tighthead and a hooker will always pull out, it’s dead simple really. If a tight-head scrummed in, and the scrum fell, he’d break his neck. Props with a lot of upperbody strenth, especially in their arms, can force an opposing prop to scrum in, even if the poor sod is trying to scrum straight.
Basically “Touch, Pause, Engage” is what’s flucking up scrumtime, both packs are in actual fact holding back, to prevent an early engage, or penalty, and as such, the scrum is collapsing because no-one is getting forward as they are supposed to, there is no cohesion through collision.
Referees are guessing at most, and 9 times out of 10, their probably wrong, because a smart prop, can make a ref believe what he wants.
Steve Walsh, same as all refs, couldn’t control the scrum because of two very big reasons. Ben Robinson and Al Baxter! Both props are not natural strongmen, and use strategy rather than power to control a scrum situation, and now you have them scrumming one-another, trying to outwit the other one, it just won’t work, you will always have a mess-up.
Walsh, who in my opinion is actually a damned good ref, tried to control, something that both men, tried to milk. All depended on who got the upperhand on who. Walsh might be a bit eccentric at times, and blows funny things, but to be honest, not even Andre Watson would have done better. You have two props that didn’t want to scrum, end of story.
Saint
I have to agree with most of what you say. If a ref’ has never been in the front row, he basically hasn’t got a cookin clue who’s doing what.
Admittedly the “new generation” of scrumming rules and techniques make it harder for props to “bend” the rules, but it certainly happens.
What I can’t understand is how ANY referee can award a penalty against a prop on the side of the scrum furthest from where he is standing. There are normally more that one factor that contributes to a scrum going down, and I’m damn sure that many referee’s don’t actually know half of those causes.
Mind you, having said that, the looks on some of the prop’s faces when they’re penalised can be quite comical.
“Honestly ref’, butter won’t melt in my mouth!”
#4
Bakkies Botha taught them that trick.
The Saint
You go and ask any prop who has faced Ben Robinson and ask him if they rate him.
What is a natural strongman…you saying that all other props dont do weights!!
A fact to take into a account in scrumming, by not much. is shoulder width of a the total front row. This can skew a scrum on the engage.
The boys wanted to scrum but were trying to have alend of each other. I bet they could have been trying to see who can milk a penalty off the other.
I would also have a guess they was gamemanship between the two.
If Benn robinson is not a natural strongman then what with the springboks last year. Yes they won the tri nations but against Robinson they struggled. What does that make the bok front row …little kids??
A ref does not all of a sudden become an international ref. They have a clue…they are not stupid.
They have been around for sometime.
Basic physics helps a ref as well just have to watch out for it and one will see where the discrepancies are.
problem is there are million who only see what the camera is recording but a ref can see the top and side of the scrum. The top view is the best view for a ref when it comes to boring in…you see the change in direction of the head and shoulders.
Collappsing is at different levels…knees bending of an individual/team etc etc. dropping the shoulder, top view will be clear because if the shoulders are not lateral then somehting is wrong.
Wallabie
#6
You sound like a lock, meaning, you can at best make an educated guess, but let me help you out.
As for your post regarding Robinson. When I say he is not a natural strongman, I don’t mean he isn’t a good scrummager, I mean he is a technical prop, and not a brute strength guy like that monster Andrew Sheridan,Beast Mtawarira, Castrogiovanni or Os du Randt, he falls into a different category, being a smart prop, think Hairbear of Wales, Phil Vickery, Carl Heyman or indeed Al Baxter. Yes they are also strong, but they do not only rely on strength alone, but are far more technique prone.
That is why the scrums suffered, think of it as follows, let two stone pillars lay against one another, and you have a structure, place two rubber pillars against one another, and they bend, contort and ultimately fall down.
Baxter and Robinson tried to out think one another, and neither of them wanted to give best. So, instead of banging into one another, like other props would, the held back, trying to either shift grip, or counter the other prop. This leads to an inconclusive connection, and ultimately, a fallen scrum.
Don’t know whether you believe me, but I know what I am talking about, been around the block as they say.
#7
A ref will never be able to accurately control a scrum, because they are not in there, it is unfair of us, to expect them to do so. But they must, because of these and those rules, but the safest way to govern a scrum is just to allow the guys to get on with it, and sort each-other out.
If you are good, you can make the best referee look like an idiot…fact! As I said, I rate Walsh, whatever the common opinion of the man. A ref just does not know, and ex front-rowers, just don’t become referees, don’t ask me why 😉 hehe
All in all, let the refs guess, it won’t end, because it is all they can do, if you want to blame someone, blame the IRB.
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