So the Sharks want Butch James back at all costs. Why, you have to ask yourself.
Do they not have a development programme? Do they not have some of the best rugby schools in the country (of which James was such a famous product) and do they not boast a very impressive academy down at Kings Park?
Why the insistence on having James if you were prepared to let him go in the first place? What was the rationale in 2007 when the Sharks did not renew his contract and released him to Bath? Surely, at the time, there must have been a contingency plan?
Was it to keep importing foreign world stars like Fred Michalak and Juan-Martin Hernandez until a young star came along again (like Patrick Lambie for example)?
Difficult to say, because three years down the line, the best solution the Sharks have is to want James back – this time with the help of SA Rugby.
This basically means they are expecting SA Rugby to help foot the bill for James’s return… in other words, offer him a Springbok contract.
This is the same union who now expect Bok coach Peter de Villiers to help them after ignoring pleas from De Villiers to give Ruan Pienaar an extended run at No 10.
Actually, it is quite cheeky, I would say, to ask SA Rugby (De Villiers) to help fund their flyhalf of choice after ignoring a request from De Villiers (SA Rugby) to play someone else in that position!
Interesting comparison
It makes for an interesting comparison when one takes a look at the other “big” unions in SA rugby, and what they have at their disposal in the flyhalf stakes.
The Bulls are in the pound seats in this regard, with Morné Steyn a world beater; former Affies ace, Jacques-Louis Potgieter, just behind him and Waterkloof prodigy Francois Brummer already having played Currie Cup rugby. Then there is Marnitz Boshoff as well. The Bulls could afford to ship off the likes of Burton Francis and Ruan Boshoff to the Lions without any disruption or weakening of their squad.
The Cheetahs are in a spot of bother. They continue to produce fantastic players, but cannot hold on to them. A recent schoolboy star, Franna du Toit, could come through the ranks in the next year or so, but for now, the Super 14 team is looking at Griquas to provide their pivot.
The Stormers have Willem de Waal and Peter Grant and a host of young talented flyhalves coming through the system. The problem is that not many of them are kicking doors down, but at least they will have options in the future. No need for them to ask SA Rugby for any help at all, especially if Lionel Cronjé kicks on.
The Lions have some gifted young flyhalves. Elton Jantjies is the real deal and Jaco Taute could be the next Jaque Fourie from that union. Maybe those two will learn enough from Carlos Spencer to deliver sooner rather than later. Jody Rose is of course another with great junior team credentials, but he has yet to shine in senior company.
Of course there are other young No 10s as well. The former Matie, Coenie van Wyk, could be huge for Griquas this year. Ricardo Croy is another who could find his niche in Witbank of all places, playing behind a willing pack and under an astute coach like Jimmy Stonehouse.
It is clear from the above that most of the Super 14 sides have planned well for the future. They have established players at No 10, with some good talent lurking.
Pity the Sharks seem to be the only union maintaining that the best flyhalves out there, apparently, speak a foreign language or are playing abroad.
Hard to swallow
JJ Harmse
Agreed, we should have kept him in 2007 but think he is over the hill now, I am convinced that Lambie has all the makings of an incredible 10, play Ludik at 15 when Oupa Terblanche retires.
Does Jj freelance for Rt now.
2@ Wezwp – No
The junior rugby systems of the Sharks are overrated.
Sharks have Justin Botha former SA schools flyhalf at their acadamy, but he did a knee badly in a car accident last year.
Lions offered him a contract when he was 16 but his father told them to come back when he was 18. Lions got hardegat and Ian Macintosh signed him at Craven Week in his matric year.
Lions kan maar kak maak!
5 – Scrumdown, So how bad is that knee of Justin Botha? Once they get hurt like that sometimes never the same. Then he is young and it could heal proper.
Is he a good FH? How talented is he? Talent like Lambie? Then we have someone in him if that knee is not that bad.
Read that Jano’s injurie is not serious and he should face the Reds in 2 weeks time.
Good news for Lions !!!
7 – Yes that is good news Blouste, Jano is one of the good players at the Lions. They need him.
Always remember last year they also wrote the Lions off and they beat the Brumbies at Ellis Park. So who knows they could beat the Reds there. Then they have lost some very good players this year.
Puma
Last I heard it was getting better. The youngster was on his way to a shop on a Sunday morning when a woman jumped a red robot and t-boned him.
Our club coach visited him a couple of times when he was in the hospital in JHB.
He was a prodigious talent at school. Played Craven week for the Lions for three years, and SA Schools when in Std 9.
Worked extremely hard off the pitch at all aspects of his game. Haven’t seen him for some time, but will ask his Dad how he’s doing next time I’m in JHB.
9 – Scrumdown. Thanks for the information there. Shame for the younster to get knocked down like that. Should jail those that jump the red lights. Too much of that in this country. Laws should be stricter here but they now.
Now after reading what you have said about him. Really hope that knee pulls though and he gets a chance to play again. Pleased the Sharks got him. Sorry to say that.. 😀 Just think that is where we lack in the Sharks we need the youngsters to be coming through and playing them. Not bringing back the older players. The older players are good to help out the younsters for a season but that should be it. I would for sure have Butch at the Sharks for the rest of this S14 but that does not solve our problems for later.
10 – Sorry for my English up there…..hahah.
Last line of the first paragraph. Meant – Laws should be stricter here but they are not.
Really should check my posts before I submit them..hehe
Natal have had 3 Flyhalves not make it this year, not a good way to start, then they got Andy Goode, who in my opinion does not fill the gap at all.
Rugby is a business now, if the Sharks convince SA rugby to pay for Butch coming back, good for them, but my personal opinion, Butch hasnt got much more mileage left and should see it out at Bath…not that he isnt good, but the breakdowns just keep coming, he is a lot like Wilkinson in that regard, injured a lot….but then neither of them stand back in the tackling stakes. That youngster at Natal Justin …. I think, has injured himself, their cupboard probably is bare, with 4 of their choices gone.
Be a good idea to let that Bulls youngster come and do a season at Kings Park, Ruan wont play at flyhalf, thats his choice….with Morne there for the Boks now, that is not so much of a problem anymore, then let him be a utility back.
12 – 4Man Howzit, Yip we been unlucky with the FH at the Sharks this year. I feel the same with Butch. It would be great to have him for the rest of the season but he is just too injury prone. Also those knees will never hold out for much longer.
Maybe this youngster Justin Botha that Scrumdown spoke about comes through after he got knocked down. What a pity. Sounds like a very good talented player.
Watching Boots last night. Naas seemed very impressed with Lambie, but as a FB. He said watch him he could make the WC!! Now we need more of that kinda talent to be coming through with our youngsters. Also Lambie is a Durbs boy born and bred.
Bulls also have JLP. Wish we could get him. He is not getting game time. Great FH too….hahaha. They have Morne after all. We could get a loan of him for the Sharks.
Can’t remember reading that the Sharks wanted SA rugby to help pay for Butch’s transfer fees?. . .
Last I read was the Sharks needing SA rugby to convince Bath that Butch won’t be eligible to play for the Boks unless he’s back in SA.
The money’s supposed to come from the Sharks and sponsors, not SA rugby.
At the same time one must ask, why did the Nulle allow Matfield to go after ’07? It took PdV flying all over the world to negotiate his and other ’07 Boks’ return.
Easy to get on the Sharks back now, they’ve obviously had a long term plan which failed miserably after injuries, who knows what the plan was 3yrs ago….tons can go wrong in that time.
@13 Howzit Puma
Lambie is Ian Lambies son, who used to play for DHS old boys and I also think he was quite a good cricketer, I am sure he went to DHS too, he is a few years younger than me. The laaitie looks good, but in his first game he had nothing to lose so he played to his potential, we’ll see when he is under pressure to retain a position or if he can consistently deliver week after week. But he certainly has the makings….but very very early days….Naas reckons World Cup, well I dont often disagree with him, if he is saying perhaps and not definite then ok.
I watch Butch here quite a lot and he is like a good red wine, he just gets better with age. Also getting married now, so the boytjie is settling and you can see in his game he has matured, he has kept all the skills without the aggression and thus never gets blown for anything. I agree with the second in line Bulls flyhalf, let him come to Durban and get a bit of culture, it can only be good for him. 🙂
@14 Firestreuli
Someone else mentioned that they wanted SA rugby to pay, I just commented on that.
We dont need Butch for the World Cup, so I dont think that SA Rugby would ahve anything to do with it. Morene flyhalf (earned the position) Ruan utility back and backup flyhalf. Although if he keeps kicking like he did on Saturday, then I would rethink that, I think Ruan is better than any other no 10 in open and broken play at flyhalf.
15 – 4man, Thanks for that. Had no idea he was Ian Lambies son. This younster is pure class I think. Think you can spot when someone will be a great. Well he impressed me a lot on Saturday. Then heard Naas speak like that about him last night. Thought well there you go, this youngster is the real deal. Not sure if any of the selectors will take notice of course for next years wc. Naas thinks so though. Agree, have to see him in a few games to be really sure. He wont get it so good everytime in the first few games but by next year expect a lot from him.
Yip, would still have liked Butch to come back here for the rest of this season maybe even next, but next would put the Sharks back. For now though would have him back in a second flat…hahaha. He still owns a house in the estate I live in. If he ever comes back here to live maybe that is where he will settle who knows. I think if he is getting married maybe he will think otherwise to come back here.
YES…….hahahaha. I say let us get JLP from the Bulls. Give him gametime……..hahaha. GBS and the rest will come after us now….. LOL. He is not getting used maybe a load systems or something from the Bulls for the rest of the season would do well. We missed that one for sure as he is from the Free State.
16 – 4man, Agree with you on Ruan. In open and broken play Ruan is tops. Just if he can keep the confidence up think he would be my numer one. Morne has nerves of steel. But over all Ruan has more talent.
Read a bit in the paper here during the week. Ruan saying first choice for him is scrummie, but if the team needs him for FH then that is where he will play, he said he will play in any position the team needs him. So all this talk that he wont play FH and only wants to play scrummie seems a whole load of nonsense. He says team comes first. So who ever said that Ruan thinks of himself first has got it wrong.
meant – number up there.
GBS – I agree with some of what you say BUT
Where I agree
* I agree that the Sharks should have hung onto Butch. But he wanted to go for more reasons other than money. He is a young adventurous man that loved touring. He had something he needed out of his system. At that time he had to assume that he would not make it to the next WC.
In some ways the injuries may well have preserved him
* I was deeply unhappy when the hired Goode. Still am. Bad choice.
* The Sharks academy did not recruit well enough for No 10 when Butch was still around. They have generally done well and there is plenty of talent coming through. Just not enough at 10
Where I disagree
* Its not to say the Sharks have nothing coming through. The Cronje brothers are good finds. WHether they are ready or not is another question
* All the sides are not well covered. You need an international quality FH and a decent backup. In my eye Morne is the only one. JLP is good cover so yes the Bulls have done a good job
The Stormers are the next well covered. Of course they nabbed Grant from the Sharks feeder school that produced Butch and Stransky. Sensible of them. I simply don’t see either of them as international class and the same goes with the other
* Pienaar at 10 – Well neither of us know what is really going down there. Pienaar wants to play 9. He may have to switch back to 10 if Goode fails to get a SA work permit which they need in SA
* Based on this it may well be in SAs interests that Butch returns. Say Morne gets injured then what? I would rather have Butch there are on the bench than any of the others.
* The Sharks are looking for a sponsor to bring him back. SA Rugby may help a bit but they need a commercial sponsor. If a commercial sponsor steps in then why not? I understand that sponsors were involved bringing Victor home. The difference was that he did not really love their overseas experience
* There was some bad luck. Meyer was a Natal boy. Still young. He retired
* Not all doom and gloom in Sharkland. The media have exagerated the problem. 4 of the 5 defeats were narrow and they had some bad luck as well.
Hopefully we are on the mend. We are unlikely to threaten this year but if we can sort out No 10 we can finish in the top half and challenge next year.
Biscuit welcome to Rugby-Talk, i hear your plead , but why do you guys want a quick solution at 10 every year. Your buying of Michelac, Hernandes , Goode and who else has smothered your own talent. You destroy young players careers. Why did you recall Monty du Mond from the Cheetahs where he was on loan. I guarantee you he would have been the Cheetah no 1 by now.
He is as good as Goode if not Gooder(better)
No patience is showed in nurturing a solid number 10. A lot off seasons has gone by, and now this desperate situation. I hate to laugh at a balls up like that, we are all South African rugby lovers and want the best for SA. But this Sharks debacle is turning into a joke. It is also depriving the National coach to see flyhalve talent in SA. Only 3 off our Super 14 teams are playing number 10s that are eligible for Springbok jerseys.
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