All the questions that we have asked about this tour and about the planning, management and vision of the coach are now starting to be answered.
I am not against Peter de Villiers as somebody who has given his best and who is well intentioned, however it will take a miracle for him to re-build what is obviously a Bok rugby team that is on the rocks.
When will we ever learn?
The senior players have run out of gas.
The mix of experience and youth in the run on team is not right.
We have not properly considered the above two points in the light of this tour and in the long term planning for 2011.
We have not properly considered playing styles and difference in approach between the NH and SH.
Have we asked ourselves which of these two playing styles will be best needed to win WC 2011?
Do we realize that our gradual neglect of technical scrumming is now losing us games and will continue to do so for some time, regardless of who we select, as we cannot fix this quickly?
Do we understand that in order to win WC 2011 we have to establish a scrumming school immediately in SA, in order to repair the damage already done?
Do we understand that we cannot win WC 2011 if we do not identify, nurture and play our best players, no matter where they play their rugby as professionals and no matter what their skin colour happens to be?
Do we have the coach and management who are capable of considering these vital points and out-thinking, out-planning and out-smarting their counterparts in France, New Zealand, Australia, England and Wales?
Will we ever listen to Tim Noakes?
The way it stands right now, I am not confident of the answers to these questions.
As for this tour, do not be surprised if we lose to Italy.
It will depend on who is available for selection after counting the injuries after the French hurt us, and more importantly who the coach selects and how we decide to play.
TH, dead right!
The signs were there against a very ordinary BIL touring team in June already, we barely managed to scrape through that lot.
If we play those dirt trackers again on Tuesday, we are going to get nailed by Saracens as well.
TH
We must have a serious look at our problem areas, and you rightly pointed out THE FRONT ROW.
For a tired team the guts they showed to try and run up to the end and defend all the way to keep the score down to 20-13 showed there is a passion amongst these players.
For Me yesterday was disappointing.
The week was not the normal smooth running week like we had before the other tests.
Going up late , not so clever.
The Beast saga not good for planning.
The John Smit book, no no. I think he ended his own career with that one.
Like i said on another post, yesterday the team could not build momentum because of the constant blood injuries, Schalks injury the 2 yellow cards and the engagement with the referee. On the udder hand the French never allowed us.
“All the questions that we have asked about this tour and about the planning, management and vision of the coach are now starting to be answered.”
…
i saw that part and knew beforehand who wrote the article …. come-on tighthead … get a life!!
Folks, I don’t buy this tiredness theory. If the players are tired [or unmotivated] then they should have opted out of the tour. It is easy: Coach, my back is sore and I have no enery to go on tour. Please pick someone else. If you go on tour then you must be at your best, if not stay at home and don’t accept the pay cheque.
It is time to move Smit back to hooker or to retirement. Goodbye Beast, goodbye Kankowski. Hello Alberts and welcome back CJ.
I cant see that the players were tired.
Victor had the chance of his life to go and rest after that cut, no he soldiered on
Bakkies lost almost all his blood 😆 but had to be ordered off by the ref.
Schalk you could see the pain.
Morne mauled by Chabal he stood up without complaints
These Boks were brave.
The French tried some Oscar performances and with the help of the crowd made the assist ref take note.
Go and look on the replay how dirty the French played, they accused Bakkies of things and did exactly the same. Hand off is allowed , not with you elbow…..
The sad thing for me is that a great [the greatest?] Springbok Captain is now being compared to Donut Dunning.
“The mix of experience and youth in the run on team is not right…”
Nope, wrong selections are the problem more than youth v experience. There were very few young players on show…
SuperB: “The French tried some Oscar performances and with the help of the crowd made the assist ref take note.”
I have to disagree, the lack of composure by the Boks made it easy for the ref. Did you see Habana kicking the bloke on the ground? He was lucky it was only my wife that saw it…the ref, touchies and me missed it when she pointed it out and saw it on the replay. When ever did he resort to stuff like that?
But when your tighthead prop playing at inside centre attempts a grubber for the #8 on the wing you know you are watching a team with no gameplan.
Dit lyk nie goed nie…
TOULOUSE – French coach Marc Lievremont delivered a damning verdict of the Bok scrum by suggesting it was weaker than Australia’s following his side’s 20-13 victory in Toulouse.
It was the ultimate put-down as Australia has long been considered to have the weakest scrum amongst the world’s leading rugby nations.
The Springboks slumped to their fourth loss in France in 12 years on the back of a creaky scrum and in the face of some inspired French play.
“South Africa’s pack was heavier than ours but it’s less vicious than Australia for instance,” Lievremont said.
“We have a very good scrum but it has not always been rewarded for its dominance in the way it should. The fact that we won today is mainly due to our scrum. We were able to impose our game on them.”
But Springbok No 8 Ryan Kankowski felt that the scrum went well from his perspective at the base: “We had a very solid scrum and felt comfortable with the ball I was getting off the back,” Kankowski said.
“We had some good training sessions with [former French prop] Pieter de Villiers where he explained that the French would be direct and come for you. That’s exactly what happened but I think we managed it quite well.”
Bok coach Peter de Villiers didn’t have the same unqualified praise for the scrum as Kankowski, but he did question referee Wayne Barnes’s interpretations that saw the South Africa give away two penalties at scrum time.
“If you look at our scrum against Australia in Brisbane [the Boks lost] and our scrum tonight we had the same problems – and the one thing that is common to both matches is the referee,” De Villiers said.
“I feel that we could quickly find a solution if referees could explain to us exactly where we are going wrong. But they can’t give us an explanation and week after week we have no idea what we have to work on.”
But De Villiers didn’t help his own cause by opting to bring specialist tighthead CJ van der Linde on at loosehead instead of Wian du Preez, who is a specialist loosehead.
Van der Linde was penalised twice by Barnes and the coach has to take some responsibility for deploying a player out of position.
7
Swanie ek wil weer na daai skop van Habana kyk, dit het vir my gelyk of die Franse speler sy been nader ruk, maar wag ek sal eers weer kyk. As dit i skop is is dit seker n truuk wat hy daar in die Flats by Rickie en Hirsh geleer het 😆
So now it is the Anthem and the ref that cost us the game. Sure, neither were great but……how about not noticing the scrum being man shamed during the 3N, Kankowsi’s lack of form, Jacobs’s lack of form and game time, a similar performance by the dirt trackers during the week……….really it is time for a little reality from the Bok camp.
10
who blamed the ref?
Super, is wat ek ook dadelik gese het maar as jy weer kyk sal jy sien hy gee so moffie skop!
Hey that athem was gold, I had a good belly laugh…
I found this bit of wisdom somewhere
SA have probably been able to get away with not keeping up with the latest technical scrum coaching because they’ve historically always been bigger than their opposition and thus able to get away with (relatively) poor technique. Now that conditioning is so much better in the professional era other teams are catching up in size and the bok scrum technique is being exposed.
An outside scrum-doctor is what’s needed — bringing in a former Springbok prop to coach them will just give you more of the same (ie someone who thinks if you just push hard they will crumble every time, since it worked for him).
But as a Wallabies supporter I’m happy for the Boks to make no corrections to that set-piece as 2011 rolls around. I’d feel sorry for you boks supporters (since I well know the sinking-heart, “oh crap” feeling every time a scrum is called) but most of you don’t seem to think it’s a problem. So I guess everyone’s a winner if it stays the same.
12
Daai Volkslied het daar op Voldys daai Tackler behoorlik aan die kraai, die dr@l.
Dis n skande wat die Franse gedoen het. En jy moet verstaan as PdV sy misnoee daaroor uitspreek. Die Sport minister is reeds op sy case.
Swanie @12
Kyk daai anthem op YouTube, ek lag nog steeds, heng dit was skreeusnaaks, veral daai een moegoe op die bongodrom wat sukkel om die ritme te hou, hehehehehehe!
Nee, die ‘orkes’ was dik gerook, vir seker…
Just going to repeat what I said on keo.
WELL done to France, they deserved their win.
I had no problem with us going late (altitude coditioning is always a advantage) Maybe we should have left on Monday night to just have one training session at night time on Tuesday night.
3 best players. Brussow awesome, Bekker who I don’t rate proved me wrong. Respect to him. And John always giving his best and without his try we would have lost by far more. The rest were very, very poor even Victor and Bakkies poor and the biggest disappointment was M. Steyn. (probably had a off game as he is normally very good) Zane never as good as Frans Steyn, Adi never as good as JdV, Kanko only being a fringe player all year just not enough game time at this level disappointed with him too. A. Johnson should take his place against Ireland or call Alberts/Vermeulen as think Burger will head home with that injury, looked serious. Burger not as good as Juan at 7. either. The rest were all poor. Also said all week we needed Deysel on the bench to cover for Burger if he got injured and that is what happened. Danie is not a 7. Would have been better if Deysel came on he fetches well for the Sharks and would have been better next to Brussow than Danie. Deysel has to start against Ireland. As much as I love the Beast we need WdP to start against Ireland.
The idiot who sang our anthem was a total disgrace and no respect to South Africans. He was either stoned or drunk too and never knew the words. Shame on you France.
Now lets support our Boks they have only just lost 2 games this year. They are tired. Very proud of what our Bokke have acheived this year. We are just too passionate and want them to win every game. It cant happen the body eventually breaks down with just too much rugby or in any sport. Good luck Boks with the rest of your games.
116 – Meant to say we missed Spies too.
17 – Forgot. CJ disappointed me. He can stay there and play club rugby we have enough talent at home. WdP is better from what I saw of him at the Cheetahs.
18 Puma- CJ came on as a loosehead, he is actually a tight, who can play at 1 as well.
So wie is die narre hier wat vir Kanko gevote het?
Kom nou, Steek op jul hande!
Pietman.
Goeie moer daai rendition is fattup. Ek sou my bepis het was ek n Springbok.
As PDV gaan volhard om Smit as kaptein te wil behou, sal hy moet terugskuif haker toe. Ek kry die gevoel ons probeer een seisoen te veel uit Smittie haal, en dat sy loopbaan dalk op ‘n lae noot kan eindig.
Beast het die eerste toets teen BIL baie goed gespeel, maar daarna al stiller en stiller begin word.
Bissie, Bakkies en Brussow het vuur met vuur beveg, en veral Brussow het met groot eer uit die stryd getree.
Victor het ‘n baie belangrike lynstaanbal verloor aan die einde van die game, toe ons op hul doellyn was, en daarna het hul heeltyd op ons doellyn geboer. Hy het wel in die losspel goed gedoen.
Kanko en JPP was ons swakste spelers, dink Kanko het in een wedstryd meer ge-knock as Spies in al sy toetse saam !
JPP, wat het hom besin om daardie bal vinnig in te gooi. Hy beleef ‘n baie swak seisoen.
FDP het die beste probeer maak van die slegte situasie, maar sy voorries het agteruit geboer, en hom uit die game gehaal.
MS het ‘n slegte dag beleef, veral met daai lui voet van hom. Sy lynskoppe was wel baie goed, maar daardie laaste strafskop wat hy gemis het, kon ook die momentum na ons geswaai het.
Adi is gekies om die lyn weg te stuur, maar besluit toe om alles self te probeer. Sy verdediging het gehou, maar hy en JF (het hy gespeel?) as kombinasie gaan nie werk nie.
Habana het ‘n paar keer goed gelyk, maar verder ook nie veel goed gedoen nie.
Zane was een van die ouens waaroor ek ook bekommerd was, maar na my mening ons beste agterspeler. Goed onder die hoë bal, en sterk aangesluit ‘n paar keer by die agterlyn.
Van die reserwes was Danie stil, CJ teleurstellend, maar hy is eintlik ‘n vaskop, Bekker het hard ingeklim, Strauss en WO te kort op die veld om regtig ‘n verskil te maak.
Goed, noudat ons verloor het teen die Franse, maak dit die res van die toer nog moeiliker.
As ons gewen het, kon ons die volgende 2 wedstryde met ons B-span aangedurf het, maar nou kan ons nie bekostig om skandes te maak teen Italie nie.
Die topspelers lyk nie noodwendig moeg nie, hulle is topfiks, maar ek dink hul is mentally dalk moeg vir rugby.
Die feit dat die B-span ook nie goed lyk nie, maak dit nog moeiliker om jou topspelers te rus.
So, wat doen ons nou, rus die topspelers vir volgende 2 wedstryde, en speel hul teen Ierland, of speel hul wel teen Italië ?
18 – Loosehead
I know he came on as LH and can play TH too that is probably why he was called up. But he was nowhere last night. Never impressed me at all. Think he has played too much club rugby and not this Level TESTS. If he serious about coming back home he will get back up to it. If he stays in Europe then he can stay there and play club rugby if that is all he could do.
WdP and WP Nel. I rate them more. Than CJ.
23 – BDB
Think we need to play a combination. Rest Victor, Bakkies, FdP They are tired.
Try out WdP maybe John at Hooker and CJ at TH. Try Johnson back at 8 and Deysel at 7
My team with the players that are there.
15. Rose (He deserves another chance played well for the Dirt Trackers. Zane was not good last night.
14. JPP (Wish we had Mapoe)
13. JF
12. WO
11. Habs even is he is tired. No-one else to take Hab’s place.
10. M. Steyn (No-one to take his place so he cant rest.)
9. Ruan
8. A. Johnson/Danie (wish it could have been Alberts/Vermeulen not there.)
7. Deysel with out a doubt.
6. Brussow (No-one to take his place so cant be rested)
5. Bekker (Victor needs a rest)
4. Danie (Bakkies needs a rest)
3. CJ (Try John back at hooker)
2. John we need our captain so cant have a rest. A. Strauss on the bench.
1. WdP.
Puma, verskil met jou oor Zane. Dink hy het nie te sleg gedoen nie.
Ek sal van die topspelers rus vir die volgende weke, maar die beste span kies vir Ierland:
Zane
JPP (nie iemand beter nie, so hy moet maar speel)
JF
WO
Hab
MS
FDP
Dewald
Deysel (as Burger nie kan speel nie)
Brussow
Vic
Bakkies
CJ
Smit
Wian
Beast
Bissie
Danie
Deysel/Ashley
FH
RP
Adi
TightHead, so what are the solutions in your opinion?
26 – BDB
My post 25. Those are the players I would select for the Italy game not against Ireland.
Zane was good with the high ball but he was not that good at FB. Probably needs plenty, plenty time there at Test level. Miss Fransie there. WE only know what we had once they are gone? Should have tried to keep Fransie here at all costs.
Anyhow here would be my team for Ireland.
15. Zane or Rose depends how well Rose plays this weekend. Probably will get selected for the Italy game. I think.
14. JPP
13. JF
12. WO
11. Habs
10. M. Steyn
9. FdP
8. A. Johnson / or either Alberts/Vermeulen. Think Burger will go home with that injury and they may call up one of those players. Then again think PdV will select Johnson.
7. Deysel. Burger’s injury looked serious
6. Brussow
5. Victor
4. Bakkies
3. CJ
2. John
1. WdP
Bench
Bissie
Beast
Bekker
Danie
Ruan
Adi
FH
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