Ever since the demise of that “arranged marraige” that was the Cat’s, the two orphaned children that were born out of it, namely the Cheetahs and the Lions have competed non-stop, year after year to avoid the wooden spoon in Super Rugby, and 2011 appears to be no different.
It’s been debated before, but I thought it about time, as a Lions supporter to ask the question again. “Can South Africa sustain a competetive 5th Super Rugby franchise?”
As the Cats, it always seemed as if nobody involved in the francise was ever happy.
The Jo’burg guys didn’t want to play in Kimberley or Bloemfontein, the Bloem’ chaps felt that there were never enough games in Bloemfontein, and that they were never afforded the recognition they deserved as meaningful franchise contributors, and the Griquas were never really taken seriously by the other two at all.
So, after the “divorce” and much too-ing and fro-ing (and not a little controversy) by SARU, the Lions and the Cheetahs were announced as the 4th and 5th South African Super Rugby franchise’s for the Super 14, and everyone in both Bloemfontein and Johannesburg Rugby circles were over the moon because they both finally had the chance to show the Rugby world what they were capable of.
Or as it has turned out, not capable of.
A quick look at the statistics for the two teams since 2006 (the start of the Super 14) to the end of 2010 does not make happy reading.
The Lions managed only thirteen (13) wins out of sixty five (65) games. A win percentage of only 20%.
They never finished higher than 12th on the log, and were the last of the South African teams on 4 out of the 5 years.
The Cheetahs have fared marginally better, having won seventeen (17) games out of sixty five (65) played, giving them a win percentage of 26%.
Their highest finish was 10th (in their first year of competition), and their lowest was 14th in 2009.
Collectively, quite miserable to say the least.
Now let’s compare these stat’s to those of the Super 12/Cats stat’s. (In 1996 Transvaal competed, and in 1997 the Gauteng Lions competed)
Win percentage: 30%
Best Finish: 3rd (2001) Lost play-off to the Brumbies
Worst Finish: 12th (1998; 2003;2004)
So in reality, the stepchildren are only marginally worse than the Parent(s), despite the Cats making the playoff’s twice.
This all begs the question “Why can’t our 4th and 5th franchise’s compete on an ongoing basis?”
I doubt I am qualified to answer the question, but would like to point out a few things, make some observations and hopefully incite some healthy debate on the matter.
In order to do so, I will use some history and facts from the Lions as: a) I know very little about the Cheetah’s set up, other than that they like orange, and play most of their game in Bloemfontein, and b) I have a little insight into what goes on in Doorfontein and the Lions are my Rugby passion (or should that be my Rugby cross?)
Since Laurie Mains left the Johannesburg Franchise and returned to the land of the long white cloud, the Johannesburg based Rugby Union / franchise / company / whatever they are has had a succession of Executive Committee’s headed by various Presidents none of which have been very successful either in gaining on-field success, or in preventing the Union from sliding into financial crisis which was only partially ended recently with the sale of a large percentage of the bussiness to a consortium of bussinessmen, IT mogul Robert Gumede and armaments dealer Ivor Ichikowitz .
It would seem that money should no longer be a problem in Doornfontein, where a naming rights issue with the beverage giant Coca-Cola reportedly being worth some R 42 million over 5 years, a sponsorship deal with cellular giant MTN worth a reported R 20 million a year for three years, and the sizeable investment by Gumede and Ichikowitz must have swollen the bank balance to near breaking point, or at the very least, to the point it was at when Dr Louis Luyt was ousted from the Presidential Suite.
Various coaches have come and gone, but none achieved any degree of success that would warrant any opposition sitting up and taking notice.
The Union has now appointed a head coach with a world renowned reputuation in former All Black and Western Force coach John Mitchell. He (Mitchell) has a world class fitness expert in Wayne Taylor and the fact that he has been involved with the Union since the end of the Super 14 last year is showing in the fitness levels on the park.
What is not coming, are the results. Let’s not get it wrong though, the 2011 version of the Lions are a far cry from the riff raff that lost every Super 14 game in 2010 under Dick Muir, they just can’t seem to convert good games into victories.
Mitchell himself has stated that the team are at a 7 point handicap before starting every game, and that the only way to overcome that is through experience, game time, growing as a team and the inclusion in the squad of international class players.
The results would tend to give credence to what the New Zeelander say’s with the Lions being (for the most part) competitive until the final whistle in most games, and picking up losing bonus points in a number of games, but there seems to be a continuous plethora of schoolboy like errors and as Mitchell has pointed out on several occasions, a lack of ability to stick to and follow the agreed upon game plan.
Taking all of the above into account, I then have to ask the question, “Are the players good enough, and if not, are there players available in South Africa to make the Lions a competetive unit, and who would want to make the trek to the City of Gold?”
On the evidence available I would have to answer the first part of the question with a resounding “No”.
Looking at the players available to Mitchell and Co, and based on performance so far this season I would have to conclude that less than 5 would make it into the starting line up at any of the other South African franchises barring the Cheetahs, and it’s doubtful whether ANY would be able to force themselves into an Aussie or NZ franchise squad at all.
I don’t mean to be hyper critical of the Lions players, but as a group they have once again failed miserably this season to live up to the Doornfontein hype.
The squad was only strengthened pre-tournament by relatively young players with limited experience, and the “super stars” that the Union promised to bring in after the election of the current Exco’ in mid 2009 just haven’t materialised.
The only confirmed signing with any real international experience is Butch James, who’s star is busy waning at best. I am of the opinion that he will have little impact on the performaces between the chalk lines, much as many returning former stars have failed to do. Too old, too slow, and too injury prone.
As for the second part of the question, with the Cheetahs performance only marginally better than the Lions over the last 6 or so years, and the Cats performance before that being nothing to write home about, I have to reach the conclusion that South Africa does not have the depth of players required to have a competetive 5th franchise in Super Rugby, and it’s debateable whether our 4th franchise will ever be truly competetive.
Of course this opinion is purely my own, and I welcome any counter arguments that can disprove it.
As for the Lions, well it’s time for the Johannesburg Rugby brains trust to come out and make it public how they intend fixing this disaster that is Lions Rugby. The time for excuses and reasons is over.
Maybe we need to be like the big French clubs and buy a winning team at all costs. (Mercenaries don’t care where they live, and a s long as they’re winning, they’re loved by all!) I really don’t know.
What I do know is that in the last 10 years the Union has managd to win 3 Vodacom Cup’s, arguably the 3rd tier of South African Provincial Rugby competition, and that’s it. No Currie Cup wins, (2 losing finals) and not even a glimpse of a Super Rugby play off.
For the Rugby team playing in the city that is the financial giant of the African continent it’s just not good enough.
The fans have been more than patient this year, (and the previous nine as well) with attendances at Coca-Cola Park not too bad at all, but anymore losses and I’m sure that the fans will really start to lose patience.
Let’s face facts, our team is poor, and there is a REAL likelihood of us losing to the Cheetahs on Friday evening who are currently playing a carefree and exciting brand of try scoring Rugby. (The first round victory against them was far from reassuring!)
None of us in Johannesburg want to see that happen, but believe me, it is a very real possibility, and if it does happen, then all Lions supporters can write this season off as no better than 2010, and that is really saying something.
PLEASE prove me totally wrong guys.
I need a Lions victory more than a LOTTO win.
@ Scrumdown:
Watch them beat the Sharks.
The Lions and Bulls should merge and play out of Pretoria
@ Loosehead:
Can not see any reason why the Bulls must join them. We have a successful franchise why tamper with it.
Rather work a deal with the Spears, play half the games in Soweto the other half in the Nelson Mandela Bay Staduim
Superbul & Loosehead
Unfortunately, there are far too many ego’s at work in SA Rugby to allow the Bulls and Lions to form a single franchise, and as SuperBul rightly points out, why should the Bulls give up any concessions of an already successful franchise.
To me the Lions really need to do some soul searching and admit to themselves why things are as they are.
The Lionbs have problems at grassroots level in terms of developing their own talent that need to be sorted out at a provincial government level. Only then can they realistically start looking at long term development and “growing the brand”.
Until that situation is reached, the only avenue open to them is to “buy” a team and by definition trophies.
They have been “re-building” for a decade, unfortunately it’s been a “decade of decay” with results getting progressively worse until we get to the situation we are at now.
FFS the Rebels have shown what a cheque book team should be capable of having already won 3 games in HALF a competition. More than the Lions have in 24 months!
And let’s face it, they (the Rebels) haven’t exactly gone overboard with the spending have they.
IMO the best thing that could happen to the Lions would be to lose their Super Rugby status for a year or two. They’re far too complacent.
Have you read this article in the Times Live
Liam Del Carme: If you win just one of your first 10 matches in a competition that carries the lofty “Super” prefix, even if that tag is undeserved, conversation will gravitate to whether you should be there in the first place.
The Lions, those serial underachievers who play out of the industrial wasteland of Doornfontein, will again attempt to steer conversation away from promotion-relegation after another inglorious start to Super rugby. But the reality is the Kings have been promised, or should that be guaranteed, a spot from 2013.
It may seem a long time away but the blazer and tie brigade at the South African Rugby Union will discuss the prickly matter among themselves before confronting their Sanzar partners later in the month. First prize for them would be further tournament expansion (no wonder the number after ‘Super’ has fallen away) to accommodate the Kings, but their Sanzar partners are unlikely to agree to this a mere two years after the latest incarnation saw the light of day.
If Saru don’t opt for promotion-relegation to get the Kings in, they will have to come up with a creative way to make six fit into five.
One suggestion that is gaining traction is the participation of six teams in the South African conference before the top five are unleashed into cross- conference play. In other words, the Aussies and the Kiwis won’t be exposed to our worst sides. Effectively you’ll have conference play-offs, league matches, more play-offs followed by knock-out matches to determine the finalists.
As convoluted as that may sound, Saru will regard it as more palatable than straightforward promotion-relegation. They want to avoid this at all costs.
More to the point, they have no problem with promotion, it’s just that relegation comes with baggage which they aren’t prepared to carry.
Their fear is that whoever gets relegated would find it difficult, if not impossible, to sustain their game sufficiently to later mount a successful challenge for promotion.
Saru have, of course, made similar promises to the south-eastern Cape region, but they are hardly in a position to back down this time.
They have made a firm commitment to government that the region will be incorporated into the Super Rugby fold as part of their regeneration programme for the game in that region.
As part of that programme they have allocated a Tri-Nations Test against the All Blacks to Port Elizabeth, while the local leg of the International Rugby Board Sevens has also been awarded to the Windy City (although they are quick to point out that PE’s bid was the best, anyway).
Should Saru’s Sanzar partners shoot down the idea of expansion as well as the one about a six-team preliminary conference, local rugby bosses will be faced with a considerable dilemma. They would either have to embrace the ghastly thought of introducing promotion-relegation play-offs, which could potentially set in motion a process that could doom rugby in the affected region, or they’ll have to look at options outside what Sanzar currently offers.
The latter option looks unlikely as it will require the kind of decisive action for which they are not known.
Either way Saru are faced with a problem that they perhaps deserve after producing the bottom team in 11 out of the last 13 Super Rugby competitions.
Allow me to put it like this:
1.)NO TEAMS SHOULD EVER MERGE! EVER EVER NEVER EVER. ESPECIALLY IN SA. It doesn’t matter if they only live 50 minutes away from one another. No two big Unions will ever be successful together.
2.) BS with this thing that we “don’t have the depth in SA”. Stellenbosch rugby club is the biggest in the world and has more registered paying and playing members than the Welsh Rugby Football Union. we have more registered players than Aus and NZ combined.
3.) I believe the problem with the Lions (and possibly the Cheetahs) are that they have NOT YET been able to come to grips with professional rugby. Rugby is approached the same as it is at school level, and the business part of it s approached on a completely non-sporting basis.
4.) Why is it that the Force, who is based in an area of the World were RU doe not exist! is able to outperform even the once mighty Lions? Experienced players in Key positions. Front row, Backrow, Halfbacks, Midfield and Back three. In all these areas they have an experienced international player. The Lions… eerrr, uuum? Andre… no… NO ONE. Mitchell is very right in saying that the Lions needs to attract more player of international standards.
5.) Even if we don’t have the players in SA, we have them overseas. The Sharks recently bought Marius Joubert. A while back they brought Bobby and Percy from Europe. tens of Saffas compete at the highest level in Europe, week in and out.
Get Frans Steyn, Big Joe, Brian Mujati, Schalk Brits, Ruan Pienaar and see how the teams fortunes will change.
@ superBul:
I like this article, but I think a pre-comp play off conference deal would just simply be too much and ridiculous. As bad as it may sound, they need to have a promotion relegation match. Once of. That’s it. Honestly, the Lions don’t deserve to be in the “SupeRugby” competition, based on a number of reasons and results. They would be fortunate to have a chance to play to stay as it is.
8@ Greenpoint-Gunner:
A promotion / relegation game is the only fair way to go, alternatively automatic promotion / relegation as the English Premier League soccer.
Maybe in such a situation those in charge of unions like the Lions and Cheetahs would take more decisive steps to make sure their respective Rugby houses were in order.
It would be harsh, but ultimately the fairest solution year in and year out. No union has a “right” to be in any competition.
As for your claims that Stellenbosch have as many players as this or that union, it’s irrelevant. It’s not numbers that count it’s quality.
For example Maties didn’t make the semi finals of the Varsity Cup but UJ did, and UJ is effectively the Golden Lions senior amateur team, so it must tell us something about quality v quantity.
@ superBul:
Ok, what I meant is the Lions should close down as a S15 franchise and the players be eligible for the Bulls. This would only be because of the proximity of the 2 unions.
@ Loosehead:
That will be a hell of a shock, but you are not the only one who suggested this there was people on WTR who said that it would be better if they withdraw from S15 and play CC until they win.
I personally would feel sad to play without the Lions in any competition
@ superBul:
How long does an alcoholic carry on destroying lives before he sees the light? Only after he admits there is a problem.
It seems to me that the Lions don’t yet admit there is a problem. IOW they’re in denial.
A decade, 10 years, 10% of a century without making a Super Rugby playoff or winning the premier domestic competition is an awfully long time.
As my 8 year old daughter asked me last year, “Maar hoekom skreeu ons vir die Leeus Papa? Hulle wen nooit nie.”
When I sat at a sparkling new Ellis Park in the 80’s and saw the Transvaal being humiliated by Northern Free State I though it was the lowest I would ever see my team.
Doc Luyt came along and magically fixed it, slowly building a team of invincibles, and a financial giant of a sporting body. The Union got tired of his autocratic ways and got rid of him. Ever since it’s been a downward spiral of failure.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not advocating that Doc Luyt should come back, but what the whole thing tells me is that the leadership has been weak since his departure.
I think everyone involved in getting Kevin de Klerk into the Presidential Suite at Coca-Cola Park thought and expected him to be another hardnosed businessman capable of shaking the Union to it’s foundations, getting rid of the rather large load of dead wood, and making the necessary changes to ensure that things got better.
Unfortunately for reasons that I can only speculate about this hasn’t happened, and the Union remains a skeleton of it’s former self surviving on it’s mistique of the super Transvaal / Golden Lions team of the late 80’s and 90’s.
Enough said of the failings. How is it going to get fixed. Perhaps Messrs Reyneke, de Klerk and Gumede would like to tell us?
Communication from the Lions:
The MTN Lions will be playing the Toyota Cheetahs this Friday, 6 May 2011 at Coca-Cola Park. Kick off is at 7:10pm. The team was announced this afternoon and is:
15 Fullback: Michael Killian
14 Right Wing: Lionel Mapoe
13 Outside Centre: Dylan Des Fontain
12 Inside Centre: Doppies La Grange (c)
11 Left Wing: Deon Van Rensburg
10 Flyhalf: Burton Francis
9 Scrumhalf: Rory Kockott
8 Number Eight: Warren Whiteley
7 Right Flanker: Joshua Strauss
6 Left Flanker: Cobus Grobbelaar
5 Right Lock: David De Villiers
4 Left Lock: Wikus Van Heerden
3 Tighthead Prop: Kevin Buys
2 Hooker: Edgar Marutlulle
1 Loosehead Prop: JC Janse van Rensburg
Reserves
16 Reserve Hooker: Martin Bezuidenhout
17 Reserve Prop: Patric Cilliers
18 Reserve Lock: Franco Van der Merwe
19 Reserve Flanker: Michael Rhodes
20 Reserve Scrumhalf: Jano Vermaak
21 Reserve Back: Elton Jantjies
22 Reserve Back: Jaco Taute
That is still not a bad team, and the Cheetahs will do well, to not underestimate them. They are hurting bad, and are desperate to win! That said, the Cheetahs just need to maintain their intensity, and level of play, and it should be another 5 pointer.
Cheetahs have been way better than their log position indicates!! Defence has let them down, as well as a major injury list!
15 Michael Killian vs Riaan Viljoen – Even (both have been good)
14 Lionel Mapoe vs Rayno Benjamin -(Benjamin just back, Mapoe hasn’t been hot)
13 Dylan Des Fontain vs Robert “Magic” Ebersohn – Adv Cheetahs
12 Doppies La Grange (c) vs Corne Uys – Even
11 Deon Van Rensburg vs Phillip Burger – Even
10 Burton Francis vs Sias Ebersohn – Adv Cheetahs
9 Rory Kockott vs Super Sarel – Adv. Cheetahs
8 Warren Whiteley vs Raubenheimer – Adv Lions (I rate this Whiteley guy)
7. Joshua Strauss vs Ashley Johnson – Evens
6 Cobus Grobbelaar vs Ratel Brussow – Adv Cheetahs
5 David De Villiers vs Wilhelm Steenkamp – even
4 Wikus Van Heerden vs Francois Uys – even
3 Kevin Buys vs Coenie Oosthuisen – Adv Cheetahs (1st start for Buys)
2 Edgar Marutlulle vs Adriaan Strauss – adv Cheetahs (Boy against men)
1 JC Janse van Rensburg vs WP Nel – Adv Cheetahs
16 Martin Bezuidenhout vs Rayno Barnes
17 Patric Cilliers vs Lourens Adrianse
18 Franco Van der Merwe vs Martin Muller
19 Michael Rhodes vs Kabamba Floors
20 Jano Vermaak vs Tewis de Bruyn
21 Elton Jantjies vs Naas Olivier
22 Jaco Taute vs Riaan Smit
Cheetahs are just that more settled at the moment… Cheetahs by 7 or more!!
Go Cheetahs
goodafternoon everyone
jeez, what a game between the sharks and stormers … most propably one of the best super games this season (in my biased stormers opinion) … dont know whats going on with de jongh though … he messed up quite a few oppertunities for tries over the last few games … maybe its just lack of gametime, so hopefully that could be rectified
..
then congrats again to the REDBULLS
yes, the chiefs isnt the yardstick one would look to measure yourself against, but yes, a win is a win is a win, especially if it was needed as desperately as this one!!
hope that the bully boys will be able to build on this!!
…
oh, and maybe i (for the next few weeks at least) should shut my trap about the judicial system. i really feared after that game that we might miss one or 2 players for this crusaders game because of foul play. i really hope that the guys will temper their aggression a bit, cant afford yellow cards (or worse) against the crusaders!
@ Ashley:
This is exactly what you can expect from a bloody Stormers supporter. He blows sugar up the bottoms of his fancy boys and the brutes from Tswane but neglects to heap huge amounts of praise on the brilliant VRYSTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!
Sies man Ash!
@ Scrumdown:
@ Cheetah4eva:
VRYSTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!
@ Loskoppie! Yebo! Dit is waar, die Kapenaars like nie die Cheetahs nie, want ons het meer trofees as hulle ha ha!!
loosehead @ 16
obviously you missed my comments of saturday morning (and who can blame you?) 😉 (you know, headache … early morning … not good together)
..
if it is any comfort to you …. out of 12 players on testrugby.com (dont know whether you’ve played their virtual game before?) i have TWO cheetah players (coenie, sarel), NO stormers, NO bulls, and at the moment only ONE shark player, lambie (sometimes 2 when bissy starts)
cheetah_the_undercover_stormer_supporter @ 18
😀
#19
just for clarity … you have to buy 12 players from x amount of money (2 frontrowers, 2 locks, 2 loosies, 2 halves, 2 centres, 2 outside backs) and then get points for tries scored, linebreaks, tackles etc
..
most consistent player, mr_i_dont_need_to_use_my_arms_in_tackles_sb_willams
best player of this weekend (or should i say the player who got the most points)
..
wait for it
wait
wait
…
meisiekind olivier!! 😯 (ekt amper van my stoel afged*nner!!) 😆
@ Ashley #20
Actually, the Stormers have surprised me, it seeems they are the real deal. I was very critical of them, because they seemed to lack any try scoring ability, but they sure turned it on over the weekend!
I have to concur, that they are the standard bearers in the SA conference!
cheetah @ 22
thanks
i thought they played excellent rugby on the weekend
doubt whether we’ll see them in such an attacking mood against the crusaders
@ Ashley:
Ashley explain this stat to me, why is the Stormer players missing in this list? Your team have the best defensive game plan. This is not rigged by me, i just wonder.
Most Tackles Made
1. Jarrod Saffy (Rebels) 146
2. Jarrad Hoeata (Highlanders) 132
3. Scott Waldrom (Chiefs) 129
4. Adam Thomson (Highlanders) 125
4. Pierre Spies (Bulls) 125
6. Wynand Olivier (Bulls) 122
7. Alando Soakai (Highlanders) 119
8. Richard Brown (Force) 118
9. Matt Todd (Crusaders) 116
10. Liam Messam (Chiefs) 114
10. Victor Matfield (Bulls) 114
12. Victor Vito (Hurricanes) 110
13. Luke Braid (Blues) 108
13. Nasi Manu (Highlanders) 108
15. Ged Robinson (Rebels) 107
15. Warren Whiteley (Lions) 107
17. Nick Phipps (Rebels) 104
17. Willem Alberts (Sharks) 104
19. Jack Lam (Hurricanes) 103
20. Dean Mumm (Waratahs) 102
Geographically it makes sense that they must combine the Bulls and the Lions. Like NZ and Aus!
What’s the difference between the 2 countries? They both talk kak English, both hate the Japies and half of their populations consist of expat SA’s, their flags almost look the same, both bow before the queen. Heck, they even celebrate the same holiday!
super @ 24
i think the list, without other percentages to really help you understand it, can be confusing … eg. the reds, blues and stormers (all of the conference leaders) dont have ANY players on it!!
what do you read in that for example … that the reds, stormers and blues keep ball in hand for longer periods
or
that they tackle better as a team
or
is it a combination of these?
what does that say about the teams mentioned in that list then?
..
i dont know. you tell me!!
@ Ashley:
Nou gooi jy die vraag terug na my….
Ek kry die stats op Rugby Heaven AUS, maar dit lyk net nie reg nie. Kan dit wees dat die Stormers alles mooi opdeel? Of skip hulle die Stormers? Sal moet op ander stats sites kyk wat gaan aan. Maar dit was heel snaaks om so min Stormers te sien.
Kyk die Bulle kker behoorlik vir hul wickets maar hel ek glo daar mot n paar Wiepie manetjies daar wees.
http://livescores.smh.com.au/rugby/super15/player-stats.html
super @ 27
lol, soos ek gesê het … ek dink daai stats op sy eie is misleidend
en kan op enige manier geinterpreteer word … ek dink dit moet maar net gesien word vir wat dit is … stats vir die ouens met die hoogste (suksesvolle) tackle count … dink die enigste manier hoe jy dit regtig kan gebruik is as ek vir jou sê meisiekind kannie tackle nie, lol
..
sooo
meisiekind kannie tackle nie!! 😆
super @ 27
😳
sien nou dat daar wel 1 blues player op daai lys is …
13. Luke Braid (Blues) 108!! …. my fout!!
@ Ashley:
Ek sien nou weer in al sy stats dat hy n baie hoe boom is nes Pierre, en dat hy maar die winde moet vat. As n man so baie doen gaan jy seker maar meer foutjies maak as ander wat nou nie so besig is nie. :GRIN:
Sien jy die stats van Spies, ek weet ek kla ook soms oor sy spel en sy ligaams posisie is dalk te hoog maar die man hou die teenstanders besig. So ek weet nie, ek sien hom nog as ons beste BET
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